Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Cleo’s not stupid enough to give evidence in this mess.

So the 167 respondents were all trans? Which vwould make ED the only intersex full member in this network that she thinks represents her situation and interests so well...
This sounds more and more as if she is more of a fig leaf than anything else.

I can’t get over ED casually kicking Ritchie Herron out of AG after all he has been through. Surely if they allow allies e.g. partners, family members who are not TG or nor do they have a DSD they could show a little humanity.

I think it's something when the claimant (and their witness) are making Beth Upton look comparatively reasonable.

That ED quote reminds me of Howl by Allen Ginsberg, 'I have seen the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness'

‘Will the tribunal be sane though’ is a point on which we undoubtedly agree.

As I understand Land Registry is based in the North West. The NW employs more Civil Servants than many other areas outside of London. This includes Manchester and Blackpool - both very heavy on Pride and Progess.

The area Land Registry is based employs around 7200 staff in various hubs. All very close to Blackpool which is and has been for some time very Pride orientated. In fairness the Pink Pound rescued the area from demise during the 80s.

Is there a case that certain regional areas people who identify out of sex reality are able to get a safe job and with DEI being everywhere it is a good move to be anything other than a heterosexual man/woman who just wants to do a job and go home. I cannot assume anything but being ‘untouchable’ a word I have encountered from the mouths of 3 men I worked with - who on realising they might up for redundancy or challenged about a poor work ethic - suddenly identified as women. So we gained mediocre men with mediocre work ethics, presenting as women but still being mediocre. But as they all said ‘ we are untouchable’. And they were then able to make suggestions about how we all needed to be ‘educated’. It is so egotistical and so divisive. And I think they know this. But the lie is now so big everywhere is captured under ‘be kind’.

I did find the comments on Elspeth being soooo intimidating as she is a lawyer a bit of a joke when I saw what Cleo did. As a grade 7 (so a principal in old money) they presumably head a small team of lawyers advising tax inspectors etc so probably on quite tricky technical areas around company or trust or pensions law etc.

So can we all have a conversation….

How the actually heck was Emma supposed to be supporting Tinkerbell’s case?

Which bit?

1. Harassing the race group
2. Banning books
3. Cancelling the de-transitioners
4. Suggesting anti-Zionism is a protected belief
5. Saying females can talk to each other but not have groups
6. Pushing for an investigation into Andreas and suggesting his guilt rather than addressing his conduct
7. Being fawning and patronizing of Tinkerbell
8. Calling the gender critical movement genocidal
9. After being paid to do this full time being a best kept secret of the Civil Service but also ignored
10. Issuing surveys of 167 trans / bi people, asking them leading questions and acting like it was accurate information for 450,000 civil servants.

I feel bad for angry Tink. With friends like Emma who needs enemies?

Points to note. Emma Dunn does not work for Defra group. She works for a completely different area of the civil service with no overlap. However, she is chair of a cross-government network, so she can get involved with any civil servant who needs a network’s support.

Tinkerbell however said he didn’t know what her network does, and only knew her as a friend. Not true. In fact, an absolute WHOPPER of a lie.

Defra SEEN were not only not paid for running a staff network, they were only allowed to run it in non-working hours ie lunch break.

Emma Dunn said Ritchie Herron wasn’t eligible to be part of a:gender as he wasn’t trans. Emma Dunn is not trans.

a:gender is very well known throughout the civil service and are invited to input into probably every single staff policy. To say they are little know is another absolute whopper.

The Stasi show no weakness. If a sliver of light gets in the darkness disappears. They cannot let the light in, not even a little.

Their toilet worksheet is out of date, doesn’t align with Building Control, legislation, Approved Document T or British Standards, is economically unviable, discriminates against certain disabilities, the elderly, women, children and certain religions. It is not evidence based or proportionate in terms of health and safety. It misrepresents Approved Document M which discussed separate sex washrooms.

You can see where the ‘solution’ for more enclosed unisex toilets comes from. Making more provision unisex is not the answer.

Does it come with a lanyard?

I don't see how he can misunderstand what she is arguing, unless he only started reading her WS during the examination?

How come ED can get time off to have been at the hearing every day? Surely she's only entitled to time off for the days she’s giving evidence?

I would suggest that the most important to ST was #7.

I think the rest was all Emma.

Land Registry has offices across England and Wales, Swansea, Weymouth, Gloucester, Coventry, Leicester, Croydon as well as Birkenhead, Lytham, Durham etc.

God, it doesn't look good as a list does it!

The final line
ED: I don't believe GC ppl are remotely affected by what we do and say

So Women who want SSS to be respected e.g. SP, Darlington Nurses, FWS etc. are not remotely affected by what ED and ST do and say. Wow.

Anti-Zionism was found to be a protected belief in the case referred to. Important to note that he was not anti-semitic and had a specific definition of Zionism. Also that they reduced his award because they didnt like his behaviour. So if the tribunal are stupid enough to find anything in Tinkerbell's favour they can reduce any award for his contributions to the issue.

Naomi has already shown agender were far from ignored.

God, poor Ritchie 😥

Just quoting myself here to add that in para 19e of her WS Emma wrote that "several" a:gender members, including top level, were at the event.
Is she actually trying to look as unreliable a witness as she possibly can?!

Sadly a bit long to get on a T shirt

It seems odd to call a GI network 'a:gender' - they don't really include agender people, with their insistence that only gender identity dictates whether you're a man or a woman, and trying to get toilets etc for men/women on that basis (so agender people can't technically go anywhere)

You'd think that!