Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

From TT:

NC: Para 31 of WS - at 29 you mention going to meeting with C and BT and CB where C told not all recommendations wd be implemented
ED: Yes

J: Then your dates can't have been right earlier
ED: Then I'm wrong
J: If you are guessing at things we need to know
ED: Then I think I need to say I am not sure.

NC: If you were at an outcome meeting, and first one you went to was an investigation meeting - the outcome meeting is from the first grievance?
ED [we can't see witness]

NC: You say, that mtg sealed it for you. Sealed what?
ED: That I had failed to convince ppl of the harassment that was happening, and that now the only way forward was tribunal.

My sister has, so maybe I have by proxy?

J: If you are guessing at things we need to know

Oh judge! ST and ED have been guessing on every answer.

Well quite, could he not tell before now?

Surprised she saw it as her job to convince anyone at that meeting. Surely she was only there as STs supporter and should have been silent?

NC: You say, that mtg sealed it for you. Sealed what?
ED: That I had failed to convince ppl of the harassment that was happening, and that now the only way forward was tribunal.

So it was your idea and not ST?

Naughty, naughty.

(sorry quoted the wrong post)

ED: That I had failed to convince ppl of the harassment that was happening, and that now the only way forward was tribunal.

wait… ED is admitting to using ST as her patsy for this case?

Why is J intervening here:

J: Then your dates can't have been right earlier
ED: Then I'm wrong
J: If you are guessing at things we need to know
ED: Then I think I need to say I am not sure.

It seems like whenever the lady has a good idea the man has to claim it as his own.

NC was leading to that point but before she could finish he got in there first as if to claim it for himself. What an arse.

He makes statements that seek to undermine NC's professional approach and then jumps on aspects she begins to prove with a fucking flag to claim the territory.

I can't remember who is writing the complaint but surely this has to all be added. Or another complaint is definitely worth doing.

And both my parents did so we should be fine.

The answer is the square root of two hairs past a freckle x the distance of twice as long as half.

Why can't Richie Herron be a member? She's not trans and she was paid to run the whole shebang!

Clotted cream first, rhymes with cone, raspberry or blackcurrant over strawberry. I made some splits last week, apparently there's a whole cut them vertically (Devon) vs horizontally (Cornwall) schism. Probably accounts for the name.

🍋

ED: That I had failed to convince ppl of the harassment that was happening, and that now the only way forward was tribunal.

It would have been cheaper for the country if she'd stopped an realised she'd failed because there was no harassment going on.

I want a refund on my taxes. 🤬

CONCLUSION
40. I give this evidence as the Chair and now Co-Chair of a:gender. I have had a unique vantage point from which to observe the impact of SEEN across the civil service, and in particular within the Defra group where the problems were most acute. I have seen the working lives of so many lovely transgender, non-binary and intersex people overturned by the way some departments encourage and legitimise the manifestation of pretty much any gender-critical views.

[WE BOOT OUT DE-TRANSITIONERS BECAUSE THEY ARE ACTUAL LITERAL GENOCIDE]
SaMANtha had to go back to work after 6 months and I had to go back to work after 5 years. They overturned our nonsense. We had to do some work. I have been turned over.

41. The handling of Samantha's grievance is, in my opinion, particularly telling. Samantha's complaint was upheld. Defra confirmed that she had been bullied and harassed. Recommendations for change were made. And yet Defra failed to implement those recommendations. This showed me that the institution was not prepared to protect its trans staff, even when its own processes had identified the need for change. When an employee has been found to have been bullied and harassed and the employer's response is to defend the expression rather than address the harm – then that employer has failed in its duty of care in my opinion.

If people are harassed by bollards and bollards are not immediadiately eradicated from the world then a third party employing entity I don't work for is GUILTY.

42. For the reasons set out in this statement, I consider that Defra failed to take adequate steps to prevent a hostile environment from being created by SEEN and its members. It failed to engage meaningfully with complaints raised by me, by Samantha and by the many other Defra staff who contacted me as chair of a:gender.

MIKE DROP. OR MICHEALA DROP.

And my granny, re Bletchley Park. I think we're covered.

From TT:

NC: That answer betrays that this claim was at least as much your project as the C's?
ED: I have an interest in the outcome yes, but not as invested as the C.

NC: PQ's claim pretty much identical until withdrawn?
ED: believe so yes
NC: You were behind that too?
ED: No - just 2 ppl who didn't know each other going through the same thing.

NC: I have maybe 20 minutes more - happy to carry on if you wish me to.

J: I think we should stop now. Conscious that there are other witnesses to come, we are going to have to timetable.
HH: [does not have microphone - sorry - these are discussions about what the next week of the hearing will look like timetable wise, but I can't hear speakers mostly]

J: We must surely completely evidence next week - there would be a considerable delay before we can have another hearing.

[HH speaking - I think saying that once R witnesses start timings may be clearer]
NC: COnfirm that R witnesses will take less long for us

J: You think 20 minutes NC, then we have panel Qs and re-exam. Can we agree that we will complete Mr Hallam tomorrow
AL: Mr Moore will also be here tomorrow so we may be able to make a start with him too.

J: All right - we will see you all tomorrow morning. Remind ED will be on oath overnight.

[END OF SESSION]

J: Then your dates can't have been right earlier
ED: Then I'm wrong
J: If you are guessing at things we need to know
ED: Then I think I need to say I am not sure.

Judge doesn't much care for ED either. He'd rather be on a beach somewhere far away...

But surely - if the judge claims it as his own then he's more likely to support it? NC just has to resist smiling at him in a patronising way and saying "yes dear".

Or doesn't it work that way?

Oh, dear.

Clearly Emma Dunn is the Michelle Brewer of this case.

The main instigator/hidden figure winding everyone up that resulted in this Tribunal.

I thought that, I took it as a positive.

So depressingly true

Catching up slowly but @ProfLargofesse you said "Yes, this is why 'at taxpayers' expense was important. This failure to operate as an adult in the grown up world has a cost and we are paying for it." It's not very relevant to what the court needs to decide - that is just whether Defra was unfair to the claimant. That SEEN didnt have a paid post is all that matters.

Emma Dunn.

So today my nightmare stuck in a lift with people are ST, ED, Pol Pot and a legal gentleman who I shall not name but we all know.

Ugh, why, why would you do that. 😱 It frighten the life out of me, it just popped up on the thread.

'Gender is what you are in your head, and often we talk about gender when we mean to talk about sex' - ED from that video.