Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Emma gets to Zionism

44. I believe that Defra’s official position is that they have a policy that staff who share a protected characteristic are ‘entitled’ to form staff networks. In my opinion, networks for other protected beliefs such as Anti-Zionism, disagreement with Critical Race Theory and thinking same sex relations are inherently sinful would undoubtedly cause a great deal of harassment in the workplace for protected groups, and would regularly breach impartiality requirements like SEEN do.

45. I do not think it’s unlikely that a “same sex relations are sinful” network would try to form, relying on Omooba v MGA, or an Anti-Zionism network relying on Miller v University of Bristol. Defra’s policy seems to be that they would allow both of these, despite the inevitable harm that would be caused to lesbian, gay, and bisexual, or Jewish and/or Israeli colleagues respectively. Not only that, their policies would ban said colleagues from saying that they found such a network offensive, because Defra say it is not allowed to say that you consider a
“lawfully held belief” to be inherently offensive. I do not know how Defra could possibly allow SEEN by saying they are required to do so because it’s a protected belief, and then turn down other networks expressing protected beliefs which may be offensive to others.

This isn't about burning the witches really -its about saving humanity!

Glad that's over for another day. Appreciate the cut and paste posters xx

There's a moral fable in here about the dangers of making a career out of your condition or your identity. It could be quite the tragedy. "Death of a Salesman" for our times.

We started the day with a sleeveless dress, lowish neck lines and, yes, bra strap showing. No woman in the court room was dressed like that.

In the afternoon his beefy arms were covered up with a black cardigan. I wonder if someone has had A Word.

All written in the same red crayon

Irritated. Judge couldn't let NC have 20 more minutes? I bet he wishes he'd never signed back on for this kind of thing. I suppose the money might be worth it, but you couldn't pay me enough to listen to that crap again!

I think she clearly finds her DSD difficult, and this blinds her to the impact of sex on women. I suspect that she understands sex as judgement of worth and just doesn't think beyond that.

Thanks again to the cutters and pasters.

Tries hard not to make Willy joke...

Thanks to @Jimmyneutronsforehead and @myladydisdainisyetliving for the copying!

I’m pretty sure Ritchie Heron is a gay man. So why exclude him from the LGBTQI group?

😂

(I shouldn't but they took away the "laugh" emoji.)

As NC said to ED, this isn't about you.

That’s my point exactly…keep up cardigans they are very forgiving, can cover up many imperfections and keep the chills from the spine.

Is she trying to rewrite War and Peace? Where do all these people find the time to look for things to be offended by?

How the hell Emma Dunn is in any kind of leadership position is beyond me. Her constant need to narrate every single thought and action, plus gabbling at 90mph, make her sound like a nervous new graduate, not a "seasoned professional" able to adjust her behaviour to suit the situation. She says a lot more than TT has reported, but I guess no human can type fast enough! Judge had to say more than once (as did NC) to stop and let him ask the question - at one point she laughed at something the judge said and he did say something to the effect of "that wasn't a joke".

As for the judge - I have a bit more sympathy for him than some of you. I think he's trying very hard to keep the hearing on track and on time, and is laser focussed on the legal points pertinent to ST's claim. Hence his heading off of some of NC's lines of questioning. I also think he's absolutely grasped the situation and that aG were the harassers not SEEN, and just needs to hear the examination of the rest of the evidence in order to write his judgement.

Colin Wynter KC made an excellent summary yesterday on X and I will be looking for opportune moment to use the phrase "performative sheathing of my fountain pen".

I lost track - was it the LGBTQetc group or something else? Yes he's gay but I expect he's the Wrong Kind of Gay just as he's the Wrong Kind of Trans, someone who doesn't call himself Trans any more. Even though friends and relatives and "allies" can join.

What utter bastards these DEI types can be.

The A:Gender group is just for Trans and Intersex.

I mean 5 years on full pay for this. Plus 5 years pension contributions.

Well. As the Emma Dunns of the world have had their way, children are taught in school that not all girls get periods, and that that is nothing to worry about, so more cases of Swyer's Syndrome are likely to go unnoticed. Which may mean treatment is missed. This may cause life threatening complications, as well as missing the chance for possible HRT treatment during puberty.

I'm amazed at her contortionist talents, managing to put her foot in her mouth, whilst her head is up her arse. Simply awestruck!

Thanks for that. I feel a bit reassured now that the judge hasn't just been staring at the ceiling waiting for it all to be over!

I think the judge stopping ST and ED to write down what they said is because it is so bonkers that if he didn't have a verbatim record no-one would believe him if he put it in the judgment.

Well I guess the joke is on all of us because we do it for free - and many tribunals over.

I'm with you on the light sprinkling of sugar, but Mum is weird and puts butter on hers. I'm just boggling at the thought that they'd make it as far as the freezer for eating later.

So this seems to be ED's co-chair, Cleo Lunt, a "queer non-binary person".
https://www.civilservice.lgbt/conference/cleo-lunt/
Can anybody explain what "Grade 7 Tax and Legal" means? Sounds like a higher qualification than what Emma has?