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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian: weaponised emotional blackmail from 14yo 'trans' athlete

411 replies

teawamutu · Yesterday 17:40

The Guardian's rearguard action on reality continues. Apparently the problem is not the parents and authorities who conspired to lie to this boy, coddle his delusions, disadvantage all girls around him in the service of his own wishful thinking etc etc etc: it's definitely the people who pointed it out:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

I am prepared to feel a little sorry for the kid, who couldn't have been exposed like this if the useful idiots around him had done their fucking jobs. But the Grauniad can fuck off with the tired 'beee kiiiind' shit as a solution. Been there, binned the t-shirt. We want our shit back.

I’m a 14-year-old trans athlete. No one should face the vicious attacks I have faced | Lina Haaga

People understand gender differently, and I was taught to respect all ideas. But the vitriol I recently experienced was not a healthy debate

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trans-athlete-no-one-should-face-vicious-attacks

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 23:29

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 21:52

I didn't mean anything about intersex, but you have a point. I meant that feeling as if you are the opposite sex to your body can also have a biological basis. Sorry to spoil your bingo card.

I think it's very sexist to be defined only by your genitals.

Edited

It's far more sexist to be told your sex is determined by your mind.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 23:34

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 22:00

Demigirl: Someone who partially identifies as a woman.

Demiboy: The masculine equivalent—someone who partially identifies as a man.

Demigender: The overarching umbrella term for any gender identity that has a partial connection to a specific gender.

Girlflux: A specific type of demigirl where the connection to femininity fluctuates or changes in intensity over time.

Does it really seem sensible to you that there are so many words for gender identies to split nuances of identity ever finer, and and yet no space in all that for two simple words for the simple fact of two sexes?

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, you've got this wrong?

ReflectingPool · Yesterday 23:37

I literally filled in a government form TODAY that asked me whether my gender identity aligns with the sex I was assigned at birth

Same. It was an NHS form. I got to the section where it gave me a whole list of genders/ideologies I could choose from and I thought fuck it. I'm going to take it in to the doctor and ask him to 'help me complete it' I want to hear someone read it out loud and watch their faces while they do so.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 23:39

OttersOnAPlane · Yesterday 22:37

Maybe the special people can grow one, like David Lammy and a cervix.

Or maybe there's a tombola of some kind - at this point, it's about as logical as the other gender guff.

@DumpyVictoria , someone's internal sense of gender is as relevant to the rest of society as their taste in music, their favourite colour, their Myer-Briggs result, how they scored on Are You A Good Friend in a Cosmopolitan quiz and their biorhythms chart.

They can have this belief, they can structure a persona around it, but it means absolutely nothing in the wider world.

Best wishes,
A Taurean Year of the Monkey emo blue lover

I quite like the idea of the Gender Tombola.

Roll up, roll up, Ladies and Gentlemen try your luck! Maybe you'll leave as a lady or a gentlemen, or maybe a bit of both. It's all up for grabs at the Gender Tombola!

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 23:46

murasaki · Yesterday 23:20

I find it much more offensive to be defined by skirts, long hair and make up than by my uterus.

Edited

Who do that to you? I would punchum.

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 23:47

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 23:29

It's far more sexist to be told your sex is determined by your mind.

Minds can fly anywhere you want.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Yesterday 23:47

Genderists do it, don’t they? We’re the boring biological essentialists, no?

ReflectingPool · Yesterday 23:48

Demi cats

Sorry. They're not passing on the rabbit front.

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 23:48

SabrinaThwaite · Yesterday 23:24

Wine’s working :)

I do love you.

Heggettypeg · Yesterday 23:52

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 22:06

Did a four year old come up with that, too?

I've read somewhere that a lot of those genders were invented by girls hanging out on Tumblr or somewhere like that, but I can't remember where the reference came from. Does it ring any bells?

What does seem to be clear is that there is no consensus on how many genders there are and what they are, even among people who believe in them.

ReflectingPool · Yesterday 23:53

I dunno.
I may have had some wine.
I want a gerbil now

I want some wine 😀

SabrinaThwaite · Today 00:06

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 23:48

I do love you.

I love you too xx

Drink lots of water and have paracetamol
to hand xx

FlirtsWithRhinos · Today 00:06

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 23:47

Minds can fly anywhere you want.

Exactly. So very daft to think one type of mind belongs to men and another to women.

Bodies, on the other had, just are. And we can't change them so we have to live with whatever comes along with the body we have, the good and the bad.

So deciding the type of body that always used to mean "man" or "woman" actually doesn't mean that at all, and that a "man" or a "woman" is really a type of mind (a) doesn't change anything at all about all the things that come with the body - they will still happen to the same people regardless of what we call those people; and (b) creates a pointless division between minds that never needed to be there.

Altogther an exercise in total futility, done simply to satisfy people who have defined themslves based on their own sexist ideas about how the sexes are different mentally and now want to make everyone else line up with those definitions as well.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 00:08

SabrinaThwaite · Today 00:06

I love you too xx

Drink lots of water and have paracetamol
to hand xx

I always find a Berocca first thing helps.

EvieBB · Today 00:09

Secretseverywhere · Yesterday 19:35

I do think this is a form of child abuse. No child at four years old should be socially transitioned.

I do agree that no 14 year old should be attacked online but the situation of a trans 14 yo shouldn’t come up. Watchful waiting and therapy to understand why they feel this way.

It feels like such a mindfuck how are you supposed to find your sense of self when you’ve been lied to (affirmed) by everyone around you since the age of four.

I don't think he's been lied to about being a girl. He clearly feels that he IS a girl. I don't have a problem with that if that's what 'he' truly truly feels and continues to feel like that for years (and that it's not just a 'phase'). However I don't agree that biological males should ever be able to compete against biological females due to the unfair strength/physical advantage.

LeungLover · Today 00:13

EvieBB · Today 00:09

I don't think he's been lied to about being a girl. He clearly feels that he IS a girl. I don't have a problem with that if that's what 'he' truly truly feels and continues to feel like that for years (and that it's not just a 'phase'). However I don't agree that biological males should ever be able to compete against biological females due to the unfair strength/physical advantage.

I don’t know, it’s been going on since he was four. I think he most certainly was lied to. If you’re affirmed and told you can be a girl at that age, there’s a good chance you’ll grow up to believe it.

Secretseverywhere · Today 00:29

EvieBB · Today 00:09

I don't think he's been lied to about being a girl. He clearly feels that he IS a girl. I don't have a problem with that if that's what 'he' truly truly feels and continues to feel like that for years (and that it's not just a 'phase'). However I don't agree that biological males should ever be able to compete against biological females due to the unfair strength/physical advantage.

Perhaps he feels like that because he was lied to at the age of four and had that reinforced every day since. Social transitioning is not a neutral act. Your parents tell you, you were born in the wrong body, it’s reinforced by teachers and doctors, Probably told how lucky you are that your parents are so supportive. You live in a protective bubble. There’s an awareness of trans issues but probably feels very far away.

Then you’re confronted with the reality of how others see you it must hit like a (metaphorical) tonne of bricks. I’m trying to think of a comparative shock and struggling.

It sort of reminds me of the wasp factory by Iain Banks.

RedToothBrush · Today 00:58

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 19:47

For as long as I can remember, I have known I am a girl. That certainty is as instinctive as knowing I am right-handed. It is difficult to explain to someone who has never been transgender or loved someone who is, but I have never lived this way to gain an advantage or take something from someone else. I live this way to honor what I know is true.

Transgirls are who they say they are. No one has the right to tell them who they are or aren't. She says she's a girl. Very obviously, her brain and body do not match up.

You might not like that they exist, you might deny their existence, but that doesn't make it true. Transgirls and transwomen do exist, and they just want to be left alone to live in their preferred gender in peace, same as us ciswomen. It must be hard when you were AMAB but are in fact female.

Except the law. Biological reality. And people who have eyes.

Otherwise.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 00:58

EvieBB · Today 00:09

I don't think he's been lied to about being a girl. He clearly feels that he IS a girl. I don't have a problem with that if that's what 'he' truly truly feels and continues to feel like that for years (and that it's not just a 'phase'). However I don't agree that biological males should ever be able to compete against biological females due to the unfair strength/physical advantage.

The adults in his life should have told him he couldn’t be a girl, because he is a boy. Rather than indulging misogynistic nonsense.

EvieBB · Today 01:07

LeungLover · Today 00:13

I don’t know, it’s been going on since he was four. I think he most certainly was lied to. If you’re affirmed and told you can be a girl at that age, there’s a good chance you’ll grow up to believe it.

Do you think so? Did his parents lie to him though? Maybe they just allowed him to feel however he felt...and over the years those feelings didn't change.
I don't know....
I think kids tend to know their own minds by the age of about 10 so if he still felt like a girl, perhaps he really was born in the wrong body.
I do think it's entirely possible you can have a difrently gendered brain that doesn't align with your physical genetics.
Having said that, I also feel strongly for the rights of women.
I feel that there should be separate toilets and chaning room spaces for 'transgenders'.
I certainly don't agree that biological boys should be allowed to compete against girls (however they feel inside). Absolutely unfair to women.
Thankfully my two DDs are girly girls and love being girls and feel like girls etc.
But if this was different I would have kept an open mind and not 'affirmed' anything either way - I would just let my child be themselves...and see how things developed for them. ...I would wait and see if it was a phase or not....so hopefully I wouldn't have influenced them either way...just allowed them to work things out for themselves. I don't think we give kids sufficient credit for knowing their own minds.
Just my opinion...just a thought...

RedToothBrush · Today 01:07

DumpyVictoria · Yesterday 22:00

Demigirl: Someone who partially identifies as a woman.

Demiboy: The masculine equivalent—someone who partially identifies as a man.

Demigender: The overarching umbrella term for any gender identity that has a partial connection to a specific gender.

Girlflux: A specific type of demigirl where the connection to femininity fluctuates or changes in intensity over time.

Saladgender
Someone who makes up lots of genders. These may be real or utter bollocks.

Whiffgender
Someone who identifies as only smelling someone else's farts even if they are actually their own.

Salamigender
Someone who identifies as having a pepperami shoved down their trousers.

Wokgender
Someone who identifies a stir-fry

Toongender
Someone who identifies a cartoon character. See Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Not to be confused with Makamgender which is someone who identifies as an origami specialist.

RedToothBrush · Today 01:28

EvieBB · Today 01:07

Do you think so? Did his parents lie to him though? Maybe they just allowed him to feel however he felt...and over the years those feelings didn't change.
I don't know....
I think kids tend to know their own minds by the age of about 10 so if he still felt like a girl, perhaps he really was born in the wrong body.
I do think it's entirely possible you can have a difrently gendered brain that doesn't align with your physical genetics.
Having said that, I also feel strongly for the rights of women.
I feel that there should be separate toilets and chaning room spaces for 'transgenders'.
I certainly don't agree that biological boys should be allowed to compete against girls (however they feel inside). Absolutely unfair to women.
Thankfully my two DDs are girly girls and love being girls and feel like girls etc.
But if this was different I would have kept an open mind and not 'affirmed' anything either way - I would just let my child be themselves...and see how things developed for them. ...I would wait and see if it was a phase or not....so hopefully I wouldn't have influenced them either way...just allowed them to work things out for themselves. I don't think we give kids sufficient credit for knowing their own minds.
Just my opinion...just a thought...

If he thought it, at what point did they think it was ok to go along with the nonsense?

They could have said No at some point.

EvieBB · Today 01:42

Secretseverywhere · Today 00:29

Perhaps he feels like that because he was lied to at the age of four and had that reinforced every day since. Social transitioning is not a neutral act. Your parents tell you, you were born in the wrong body, it’s reinforced by teachers and doctors, Probably told how lucky you are that your parents are so supportive. You live in a protective bubble. There’s an awareness of trans issues but probably feels very far away.

Then you’re confronted with the reality of how others see you it must hit like a (metaphorical) tonne of bricks. I’m trying to think of a comparative shock and struggling.

It sort of reminds me of the wasp factory by Iain Banks.

Hmm...I'm not sure
Did his parents reinforce it?...or just allowed him/her to develop naturally??
I don't think your parents or the outside world reinforcing something you might have once felt at age 4 can keep you feeling something you aren't.
If it really was just a phase, it would most certainly pass.
Didn't Shiloh Jolie-Pitt say she wanted to be referred to as a boy and dress up as a boy....but eventually she grew out of it and is quite feminine now. I'm guess her parents just let her 'be' and she worked it out for herself eventually.
It's like gay kids who are brought up in strict religious families - just because heterosexuality is reinforced doesn't mean they will turn out straight. They are who they are.

EvieBB · Today 01:45

RedToothBrush · Today 01:28

If he thought it, at what point did they think it was ok to go along with the nonsense?

They could have said No at some point.

If he really feels he is a girl.....and he still feels like that 10 years down the line then it's not just a phase and it's not nonsense.

Heggettypeg · Today 02:05

EvieBB · Today 01:45

If he really feels he is a girl.....and he still feels like that 10 years down the line then it's not just a phase and it's not nonsense.

The question is: what definition of "a girl" is he using and where (and whom) was he getting it from?
Depending on what narrative he's absorbed, he could have reached different conclusions about himself.
"Boy's body but likes girls' company and typically girlish activities" could be interpreted as "boy with fairly unusual tastes, but nonetheless a boy", or "really a girl and born in the wrong body". People don't explain themselves to themselves in a vacuum.