British Orienteering has peaked!

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/news/6799/british_orienteering_transgender_policy

'Entry Classes for female competitors are prefixed by “W” and are restricted to those whose biological sex at birth was female.
An Entry Class prefixed by “M” is unrestricted by sex.
Those whose biological sex at birth was not female are only allowed to enter an Entry Class prefixed by “W” if they declare themselves non-competitive..'

Queen 👑👑👑

Sure. Here's the Tl;dr

Just as a racist may abuse and devalue
white musicians for embracing and valuing music seen as "black", so misogynists may abuse and devalue male people for embracing and valuing attributes or dress seen as "female".

The first is suffered by white people but would not exist without racism, the second is suffered by male people but would not exist without misogyny.

That's the first part.

However, since trans women's attraction to these things is exactly because they are seen as "female", ultimately they share the same underlying sexism as their abusers.

Therefore they are both suffering from misogyny and acting with misogyny at the same time.

That's the second part.

I'll leave out the link between misogyny and homophobia because it's an aside, not part of the core argument.

BTW it's not word salad. Word salad is intended to obscure the lack of coherent content. I choose my words carefully and intend them to be understood. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make sure they are.

I'm afraid well have to agree to disagree on that as misogyny is literally the hatred of women and girls.
Now if you were to say that transwomen suffer from the effects of toxic masculinity (which is what @FlirtsWithRhinos was describing) then I would agree but the hatred of things or behaviours that are perceived as feminine is different from misogyny which is the hatred of women and girls because of our sex not any particular set of gendered stereotypes

The hatred of female people because of our sex is the root, but it is expressed not just in direct attacks on female people but also through the rejection/devaluing of things female-coded in the culture, eg "he throws like a girl", "ooo sissy in his dress". The cultural trappings of woman/girlhood are treated as symbols of the female sex.

The misogynist doesn't refuse to wear pink because of its colour, he hates it because it's associated with girl/womanhood.

Now see what you are describing is the effects of toxic masculinity which involves the hatred of things they deem feminine and therefore lesser rather than the hatred of women and girls because of their sex which is what misogyny is.
Men who hate feminine men or thing that are feminine do so as they feel that its a threat to their own masculinity. Whilst this may have some overlap with misogyny its not the same thing.

Ah, Marie, me too. I don't let DH near them, he makes the most appalling hash of it.

Ah, now I think it's exactly the same thing, because one can only feel ones masculinity is "attacked" if one considers things associated with women to be lesser than things associated with men - so ultimately rooted in the misogynistic rejection/disgust of the female.

Perhaps it's just a difference of wording: women are the target of mysogyny, but everyone suffers at least some of the consequences.

" if I fuck up while parallel parking, then I say "Fucked that up didn't I!, and do it again. "

You could get a bit of ribbing from your mates but you're unlikely to get jeers, whistles l, raucous laughter and shouted comments from a bunch of strangers and 7 million hits on the internet video. She might.

Parallel parking gone wrong in Belfast goes viral - video https://www.theguardian.com/uk/video/2013/apr/30/parallel-parking-problem-belfast-viral-video?CMP=share_btn_url

Brilliant. The funniest part was just as she finally parked, a woman got in the car behind her to drive away!

And me too! Also broadsheet newspapers. And spacial awareness. Though I do admit to poor hand-eye co-ordination

And what about refolding patient information leaflets that fit into medicine boxes??
Anyway, I'm really enjoying all the information about orienteering and map reading. There will be a spike in the number of participants after today!

Of course women are not rubbish at maps. Before the existence of the SatNav, women were a great deal more likely than men to be the navigators on journeys by car (let's not get into "why didn't they drive though?": the men just did tend to) and the reason anyone got lost was entirely that a woman said "turn left at the next junction" and the male driver failed to do so and then refused to turn round and go back to the road they should have been on, but instead blinded on into the blue whilst blaming her for his inattention.

(Bitter, moi?)

I notice that these days if there are a male and a female in a car we overtake or are overtaken by on the motorway it's about evens whether a male or a female is doing the driving, but back in the Bad Old Days women damn' well could read maps; they had to. And it was never suggested they couldn't except when some fool of a man chose to ignore clear instructions about the way to go.

I have my OS maps downloaded onto my phone, but I still take the paper ones with me when we’re out.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

It was in a tongue in cheek response to the nonsense posted by Flowers abour female stereotypes. I can both read and create detailed specialist maps.

the male driver failed to do so and then refused to turn round and go back to the road they should have been on, but instead blinded on into the blue

OMG I am so obviously a man! The TERFERY was all just denial of my innate mannyness 😂

Can't believe I never noticed. Clearly I was blinded to my true nature by the possession of my boobs and fanny.

I was agreeing with you!

Not me. Imagine my real name rhymes with 'day'. All my life I have been known as Wrong Way ILikeDay. I turn the wrong way every time. Every time.

Have you tried deliberately going the wrong way? It might turn out you actually have a navigation superpower only it go wired the wrong way round. Trans-navigational, as it were.

My DF taught me to read maps that way. Turn the map to direction you are going. I do the same with my phone.

Many satnavs are able to do this for you automatically. I prefer north at the top for mine, but my son likes the map's orientation to change according to the direction in which he is driving.

We are both competent to read maps either way, though. And one of my daughters had to do map-reading and orienteering as part of her job, and caused mild consternation when the instructor discovered she already knew how to do that, and had done since she was about ten and was let loose on Dartmoor in charge of family expeditions.

Oops, sorry

I'm just in awe of @SoImAHorseThenTed who can not only read a map competently but do it while steering a horse - it's like Ginger Rogers doing everything Fred did, but in high heels and backwards. Blimey.

Its funny but I've always had a decent sense of direction and an ability to hold directions in my head from reading a map, long distance journeys on the continent. My dad however is another matter. Of course traveling in convoy as the older man he always led the way. It was a running joke that if I disappeared from the rear view mirror he had to work out where he went wrong.

Dh will not drive on big strange roads or on the wrong side of the road, he just seems to have a complete mind block about it and doesn't believe he could so won't even try.

Back to orienteering shall we do a big mumsnet meet at the Royal Holloway University next Easter?

I accept your knowledge on this. However, DH has a brilliant sense of direction, etc., despite not being very academic. DD2 is also not naturally academic. She has never been taught to read a map. She was able to remember routes and direct me to places from a very early age. I think it's possibly that she had a good visual memory for landmarks?

I struggle partly because everything looks so different in different seasons, times of day, etc., so in my mind it's different.