British Orienteering has peaked!

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/news/6799/british_orienteering_transgender_policy

'Entry Classes for female competitors are prefixed by “W” and are restricted to those whose biological sex at birth was female.
An Entry Class prefixed by “M” is unrestricted by sex.
Those whose biological sex at birth was not female are only allowed to enter an Entry Class prefixed by “W” if they declare themselves non-competitive..'

This is great news.

Well thats a start but they need to kick the non competitive men out too.
Men should not be joining womens orienteering groups

True.

What's great about all this feminist campaigning is it's forcing organisations to enshrine feminist principles like 'women are dumb at reading maps' into the heart of what they do. I know I, as a cis woman who likes orienteering, definitely feel like this is a victory for feminism. Yay feminism!

Completely agree. "Men can enter the class but not compete" - what the hell is that?

@FlowersInDenmark
"women are dumb at reading maps" is a feminist principle?
Care to clarify what on earth you are talking about?

Hardly, and thanks for showing us how little you understand orienteering.
Orienteering is not just about map reading its a timed event where you have to walk often quite long distances so the men will always be faster and win over women due to the male Q angle vs the female Q angle which effects walking and running speeds. If orienteering was purely about map reading as you claim there would be no need for male and female categories

It's got zero to do with navigation. It's about biological male speed and power advantages.

I would argue even if no competitive advantage then there still is a need because its about representation.

Women may be less likely to orienteer for many reasons.

I mean, there is no need for male and female categories, except the societal pressure that makes women feel they're dumb at maps which means that a more supportive approach is helpful to overcome that. Which is also helpful for trans women who face transphobia as well as misogyny.

Also I've just finished volunteering at an ultra which was won outright by a woman. She managed, staggeringly, to overcome her Q angle and triumph using all those other bits of psychology and biology that are relevant to longer distances. But no, you're right, the Q angle is literally the only important thing, women suck, we will literally always lose at every single thing, and, did I mention, we're dumb at maps?

Yay feminism.

No for sure, orienteering has zero to do with navigation. Lol.

this. Except I dispute the "walking" aspect. At highly competitive levels, orienteering is full blown RUNNING and most highly competitive orienteerers are also competitive runners, albeit at a lower level (I have family who compete at international level).

I think this is great news. In my extended family, the woman has always outperformed by ranking vs the men but all of the men are, ultimately, faster than her so if she was to compete against them, she would do less well.

This is the trouble with sport, isn't it? As children we watch it and see someone chucking a dart at a board, someone pushing a cue against a ball, someone running around grabbing letters from a pole, etc. The men do better because they're....better. But nobody points out that the guy throwing the dart is a foot taller, has longer arms, stronger muscles, etc., and the guy at the snooker table doesn't have boobs he has to lift out of the way, has longer legs and, therefore higher hips, longer arms, and stronger muscles. Or that the man running around has different physiology as well as his long legs, etc. We just think the women aren't good at this stuff.

I'm glad that my children are growing up in a more aware world.

Yes, I agree. Fun thing is that extending a helping hand to trans women for those same reasons doesn't diminish us. Banning trans women, on the other hand, says women are dumb at maps. Yay!!!

@FlowersInDenmark women do relatively well in ultras compared to shorter races (though women don't beat men in marathons, do they?) If you're involved in volunteering at ultras you should know this. Suggested reasons include

Fat metabolism: Women tend to burn fat more efficiently, giving them a steady energy source over ultra distances.
Pain tolerance and pacing: Studies show women pace more consistently and may manage pain and discomfort more effectively.
Mental endurance: Ultrarunning is as much mental as physical, and women are shown to be more resilient in the face of fatigue, cold, sleep deprivation, and discomfort.

(from https://www.ratrace.com/blog/how-women-are-taking-over-the-ultramarathon-world/)

So how come you don't also know that orienteering races are generally not as long as ultramarathons, and they are not just about mapreading?

And as others have said, even if there were no advantage/disadvantage for men vs women, women are allowed to have our own categories without including men.

Adding in people born male does not equal representing women.

I turn maps upside down. So the directions makes sense to me. This means I’m very womanly, unlike the womensey men, who never do this, instead they look at a map like a mansy man.

of COURSE there's a need for female and male categories. It's absolutely about both navigation skills AND running/strength. This is a basic fact of orienteering. How do you not understand this?

@FlowersInDenmark The only person saying "women are dumb at maps" is you. Repeatedly.

If a man transitions to a woman, does he automatically become "dumb at maps"? That's quite a theory you have there.

Transwomen are men so they dont suffer misogyny.
Women often make the best navigators due to our observational skills honed over a lifetime of having to threat asses every male we come across and every environment that we enter.
If transwomen face barriers which prevents them from taking part in orienteering then they should start a 3rd category with support tailored to them not try and shoehorn themselves into groups and categories tailored to women.
You can keep denying biological reality all you want but in a race men will always have an advantage over women.
Oh and there no need to respond because I wont be engaging further with you misogynistic nonses

I mentioned the English Blackball Pool Federation court case a while ago to a couple of female friends. Both said, "Why do women need a separate competition? Men don't have any advantage in pool?"

But I pointed out that: men are taller with longer arms, so can reach across the table better; have bigger hands for making a bridge; don't have boobs to get in the way; have faster-twitch muscles; can get a game in a pub with strangers without being sexually harassed. And my friends said, "Ah, that's right!"

(I also pointed out that the other pool league at the time was running a women's final containing two trans-identifying men. Something of a coincidence, eh, for such a minority group?)

I’ve never felt dumb at maps, my husband is crap but I’m very good at them. He’s 6ft 3 tall so could cover ground more quickly than me, though, and who knows if my better at maps ability would outweigh his physical advantage if we did orienteering?

The idea that there’s no need for a female category in orienteering “apart from women feeling they’re dumb at maps” (ie there is no male physical advantage in the sport) isn’t the most insane idea a TRA has ever spouted, but it is up there.

And if a woman transitions to a man does she suddenly become 'clever at maps'?

This is a strawman. Nobody is saying women are “dumb at maps”, and nobody serious thinks Q angle is the only thing that matters. The point is much simpler: orienteering is not just map-reading. It is timed racing across terrain while navigating under physical and mental load.

At competitive level, orienteers run. They climb, descend, accelerate, recover, make route choices while tired, and cover ground quickly. That is why British Orienteering itself recognises Foot Orienteering and Ski Orienteering as sex-affected sports, where strength, stamina and physique create a competitive disadvantage for female athletes if the female category is not protected.

A woman winning an ultra outright is brilliant, but it does not disprove male advantage in running sports. It shows that at the extreme end of endurance, in particular events and conditions, women can sometimes close the gap or even beat the men in that race. That is not the same as saying there is no sex-based performance difference.

Across standard running distances, males generally outperform females. One 2024 review summarised the male advantage from 100m to marathon as around 7% to 14%. In ultra-endurance events, the gap can narrow, but the evidence does not show that women generally outperform men.

That actually supports separate categories. Male and female bodies have different performance profiles. Males generally have advantages in speed, strength, power, oxygen-carrying capacity, muscle mass and stride mechanics. Females may have relative advantages in some extreme endurance contexts, including pacing, fatigue resistance and fuel use. But ordinary orienteering is not a 200-mile ultra. It is a timed navigation race where covering ground quickly still matters hugely.

Protecting the women’s category does not mean women are bad at maps. It means women are entitled to fair competition, ranking, representation, medals and records against other female athletes. If there were genuinely no sex difference in competitive orienteering, British Orienteering would not need W and M classes at all.

And the new policy is not a “ban” on participation. The unrestricted category remains open, and additional unrestricted entry classes can be offered. What has changed is that female prizes, rankings and titles are reserved for female competitors. That is exactly what a female category is for.