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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rupert Lowe’s rape gang enquiry, report published

773 replies

Yddraigoldragon · 16/06/2026 20:50

The report has been published, link below.

http://bit.ly/4uE5odw

It is harrowing.

OP posts:
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23
5MinuteArgument · 18/06/2026 16:54

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 16:35

I always find it funny how Muslim countries tend to not bow to this idea that as a countey you have to be open and tolerant to other cultures. Any woman in most muslim countries dressing 'provocativly' would no doubt be arrested. As would a drunk man. Even a gay couple being openly flirtatious.

They do not pander to other cultures on their own soil.

But when they move somewhere everyone has to be respectful of their culture and provide halal options and places to pray and they don't get their women to wear western clothes (like women are advised to cover themselves over there)

Funny isn't it?

Yes, agree, it's crazy. I think we need to reassert Western Christian values. I think immigrants would respond well to that because they come from cultures where strength is valued and weakness is despised.

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 16:59

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SleeplessInWherever · 18/06/2026 17:15

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Historically, many religions (including Christianity) actually supported or encouraged child marriage, that isn’t unique to Islam.

Medieval Christian cannon law set the min age at 12 years old for girls. Which I appreciate isn’t 9, but it’s still not adulthood.

Whether women holidaying in Muslim countries can show their ankles has absolutely nothing to do with UK Muslim grooming gangs.

We don’t need to “reach” to make this any worse than it already is. It’s already disgraceful without making parallels that aren’t there.

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 17:21

Right and in Christianity in modern Britain that medieval practice is completely irrelevant because we have an age of consent here now.

In Afghanistan there is NO age of consent and child marriage still happens every day!!

For them it is NOT historical.

One of the rape gang victims was married to a grown man in a Sharia ceremony at 15 here in the UK, ignoring our laws and using their Shraria law as justification!!

Beachtastic · 18/06/2026 17:26

SionnachRuadh · 17/06/2026 20:28

I might also add, if we're talking about ruined lives - and women reliving extremely traumatic experiences for the purposes of your report - it's not great optics to have the unqualified kids who put the report together grinning like Cheshire cats when they hit publish

I can see the point you're making, Sionnach - it's such a pity the victims are being exploited yet again. (Those smiling faces!!! - are on a par with the social worker asking Chloe to "play the part" of a sexually traumatised girl on Emmerdale.)

I suppose the trouble is that more neutral reporting tends to be "politically correct" and therefore seems to pussyfoot around the issues. I liked what you said earlier about treating this as something akin to a Mafia operation, requiring similar strategies to tackle it. But you can't do that if no one will name the target, which there is enormous reluctance to identify clearly (e.g. on here, "it's just MEN!").

SleeplessInWherever · 18/06/2026 17:28

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 17:21

Right and in Christianity in modern Britain that medieval practice is completely irrelevant because we have an age of consent here now.

In Afghanistan there is NO age of consent and child marriage still happens every day!!

For them it is NOT historical.

One of the rape gang victims was married to a grown man in a Sharia ceremony at 15 here in the UK, ignoring our laws and using their Shraria law as justification!!

Edited

We’re talking about Pakistani grooming gangs.

The age of consent for marriage in Pakistan is 16-18 depending on area, and sex outside of marriage is outlawed, so the age of consent for sex is the same age.

The Taliban aren’t in Pakistan.

Islamic marriages aren’t recognised in UK law, which doesn’t undermine the experience of that person whatsoever, except to say that legally - she wasn’t married.

I don’t, and wouldn’t condone the behaviour of any of those men.

But I do think we need to be careful to not apply blanket statements, that aren’t actually true, to situations where they don’t fit.

I think it minimises an argument that should not be minimised.

inkognitha · 18/06/2026 17:45

SleeplessInWherever · 18/06/2026 17:28

We’re talking about Pakistani grooming gangs.

The age of consent for marriage in Pakistan is 16-18 depending on area, and sex outside of marriage is outlawed, so the age of consent for sex is the same age.

The Taliban aren’t in Pakistan.

Islamic marriages aren’t recognised in UK law, which doesn’t undermine the experience of that person whatsoever, except to say that legally - she wasn’t married.

I don’t, and wouldn’t condone the behaviour of any of those men.

But I do think we need to be careful to not apply blanket statements, that aren’t actually true, to situations where they don’t fit.

I think it minimises an argument that should not be minimised.

Some communities and ethnic groups live across both countries.

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:11

happydappy2 · 18/06/2026 13:15

talking about the fact that Pakistani muslims are a minority of about 6% in the UK, yet some of the males from this demographic systematically raped, abused, terrorised and even killed vulnerable white girls-does not make someone racist.

I didn’t even know about this case until it appeared on my feed 5 minutes ago. I always think of poor Charlene Downes and wonder what happened to her. There was also another girl, called Laura, who was murdered by her Pakistani heritage boyfriend in an ‘honour killing’ for ‘bringing shame’ on him with… her presence, I suppose.

Rupert Lowe’s rape gang enquiry, report published
PollyNomial · 18/06/2026 18:56

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 16:29

"Lowe wants a white Christian UK, and that, not the wefare of working class girls, is his motivating grievence."

And? Why is that a problem?

Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum is the ruler of Dubai.

Would it be controversial for him to say he wants Dubai to be a Muslim country full of Asians?

What if the leader of an African country said ' we want our country to be black and Christian'

What if the Leader of Japan said they don't want to lose their Japanese culture and want the country to remain mostly Japanese?

You'd think 'yeah, that makes sense. The Japanese people are what makes Japan, Japan. It would be weird to visit Japan and everyone be white and talking with a Liverpudlian accent'

Its not wrong or weird to want Britain to be recognisable as Britain from it's inhabitants!

It's a problem because millions of UK citizens (for several generations) are neither white nor christian, and I don't particularly fancy having any of my family or friends deported to meet that idiotic racist stance.

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:59

PollyNomial · 18/06/2026 18:56

It's a problem because millions of UK citizens (for several generations) are neither white nor christian, and I don't particularly fancy having any of my family or friends deported to meet that idiotic racist stance.

I don’t think anyone means it should be exclusively white and Christian. More that it should be expected that that is the bedrock of the country due to our history and values, in the way that other countries have bedrock values.

PollyNomial · 18/06/2026 19:43

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:59

I don’t think anyone means it should be exclusively white and Christian. More that it should be expected that that is the bedrock of the country due to our history and values, in the way that other countries have bedrock values.

Not what he said and neither of us are mind readers to be able to reliably impute that nuance onto it.

As the history of these isles predate Christianity by some millennia, if he's going to respect that, he should not be trying to force that (other) middle Eastern culture on our citizens. And even if you do think we should import that, you have to decide which flavour because the original arrival wasn't the church of England.

He's a fraud basically.

EasternStandard · 18/06/2026 19:51

SleeplessInWherever · 18/06/2026 17:28

We’re talking about Pakistani grooming gangs.

The age of consent for marriage in Pakistan is 16-18 depending on area, and sex outside of marriage is outlawed, so the age of consent for sex is the same age.

The Taliban aren’t in Pakistan.

Islamic marriages aren’t recognised in UK law, which doesn’t undermine the experience of that person whatsoever, except to say that legally - she wasn’t married.

I don’t, and wouldn’t condone the behaviour of any of those men.

But I do think we need to be careful to not apply blanket statements, that aren’t actually true, to situations where they don’t fit.

I think it minimises an argument that should not be minimised.

Things aren’t that good for women and girls?

https://www.gchumanrights.org/preparedness/women-striving-for-gender-equality-in-pakistan-greater-awareness-and-state-support-needed/

The report details horrific stuff

Women striving for gender equality in Pakistan: greater awareness and state support needed - Global Campus of Human Rights | Education & Research

Pakistani women and minorities have suffered deeply rooted and structural prejudice and violence for decades and more recently a surge of state actors and vigilante predators intimidating women human rights defenders at the forefront of battling gender...

https://www.gchumanrights.org/preparedness/women-striving-for-gender-equality-in-pakistan-greater-awareness-and-state-support-needed/

catspyjamas1 · 18/06/2026 19:56

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:11

I didn’t even know about this case until it appeared on my feed 5 minutes ago. I always think of poor Charlene Downes and wonder what happened to her. There was also another girl, called Laura, who was murdered by her Pakistani heritage boyfriend in an ‘honour killing’ for ‘bringing shame’ on him with… her presence, I suppose.

Charlene Downes is a very sad story. Julie Bindel did some good stuff on this case. The family was problematic and I don’t think we'll ever know the truth.

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 21:01

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:59

I don’t think anyone means it should be exclusively white and Christian. More that it should be expected that that is the bedrock of the country due to our history and values, in the way that other countries have bedrock values.

Thankyou for having common sense.

Lolajane80 · 18/06/2026 22:23

CaesarAugusta · 17/06/2026 08:47

Unfortunately it was utterly predictable before the report came out that it would focus on immigration issues. A report which ignores or downplays the existence of white rapists isn't really worth bothering with.

Wow . What a disgusting thing to say

MarmaladeorJam · 18/06/2026 22:41

Plimfoot · 18/06/2026 21:01

Thankyou for having common sense.

That would repeat the sins of our fathers.

They created disproportionate wealth and importance for our country through empire. They imposed White Christian bedrock values on countries that had no such color or history. If the locals disagreed, our forefathers beat them, raped them, imprisoned them, starved them and slaughtered them.

We are no longer a Christian country - less than 10% of the population considers themselves practicing Christians. And while we are a majority white country, we are not an only white country.

Having said that, there is an undeniable cultural element among the men who raped those young girls and women. It includes class, education level, family ties, local cultural group, the larger context of an immigrant group as well as their faith.

We should be able to say that without calling for Britain to be white and Christian.

LBFseBrom · Yesterday 01:20

CaesarAugusta · 17/06/2026 08:47
Unfortunately it was utterly predictable before the report came out that it would focus on immigration issues. A report which ignores or downplays the existence of white rapists isn't really worth bothering with.
.......
I quite agree.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Yesterday 01:40

FernFaery · 18/06/2026 18:11

I didn’t even know about this case until it appeared on my feed 5 minutes ago. I always think of poor Charlene Downes and wonder what happened to her. There was also another girl, called Laura, who was murdered by her Pakistani heritage boyfriend in an ‘honour killing’ for ‘bringing shame’ on him with… her presence, I suppose.

Yes I remember that horrific case.

OneAmberFinch · Yesterday 08:34

There is a difference between a 90-95% ethnic-British country with a mix of a bunch of different diverse countries represented, and a 50% ethnic-British people where the remainder is split into a couple of large ethnic voting blocs who vote primarily in their ethnic interest and live in parallel societies.

I don't know what a slow enough pace of demographic change is needed so that the original host culture can be preserved, but I think it's something measured in centuries and the current rate is much too much.

Does addressing it require mass roundups of brown people? I don't think so, but it does require an acknowledgement that there is a specific native culture worth preserving in this country which is not just the Official British Values of tolerance, diversity etc. That's not a culture, that's how to manage multiple cultures.

I think people often use the term Christian to describe this culture. It certainly is heavily influenced by Christianity, and there is a rich body of Christian-influenced work which requires a deep understanding of Christianity to engage with and which we would be intellectually poorer to discard as our cultural inheritance.

With that said a lot of it is not specifically religiously Christian but is things like the western European marriage pattern - recognisably a cultural factor which distinguishes us from, say, Middle Easterners, but people just lump it in under "Christian" for lack of a better term.

Everanewbie · Yesterday 09:02

LBFseBrom · Yesterday 01:20

CaesarAugusta · 17/06/2026 08:47
Unfortunately it was utterly predictable before the report came out that it would focus on immigration issues. A report which ignores or downplays the existence of white rapists isn't really worth bothering with.
.......
I quite agree.

In what way does the report play down white rapists? Research focussing on motor neurone disease doesn't mean that no one gives a shit about breast cancer, its just on that specific enquiry, it is beyond its scope.

I really struggle to understand this perspective. These comments strike me as "all lives matter"-ing a specific phenomena. As I've said upthread, when investigating abuses in the Catholic church, I really don't remember anyone being so eager to point out the crimes in other communities to justify zooming out and broadening scope.

Comfortingly though, these kind of perspectives are becoming less and less frequent and more easily slapped down as torch of truth continues to illuminate the abuses by these Pakistani men, the justification and cooperation of their families, and the cover ups and unwillingness to act from the authorities.

Twiglets1 · Yesterday 09:21

Everanewbie · Yesterday 09:02

In what way does the report play down white rapists? Research focussing on motor neurone disease doesn't mean that no one gives a shit about breast cancer, its just on that specific enquiry, it is beyond its scope.

I really struggle to understand this perspective. These comments strike me as "all lives matter"-ing a specific phenomena. As I've said upthread, when investigating abuses in the Catholic church, I really don't remember anyone being so eager to point out the crimes in other communities to justify zooming out and broadening scope.

Comfortingly though, these kind of perspectives are becoming less and less frequent and more easily slapped down as torch of truth continues to illuminate the abuses by these Pakistani men, the justification and cooperation of their families, and the cover ups and unwillingness to act from the authorities.

Totally agree.

Calliecarpa · Yesterday 09:51

I also completely agree with @Everanewbie. The 'oh but what about...?' people drive me up the wall. It's like walking into an office of the Cats Protection League and demanding to know why they hate dogs. I can't imagine that they did the same during the investigation of sexual abuse by Catholic priests, and I can't remember ever seeing things like 'Why are you only focusing on Catholics? Most Catholics are good peaceful people and you're obviously just Catholicphobic. What about Muslim imams who hurt children? Don't their victims matter? Why aren't you talking about them? Why are you sowing division and hatred and bigotry? Men of all categories commit rape and abuse, and your report doesn't count unless you talk about all victims of abuse, and you got the wrong person to write it so I'm going to ignore it anyway'.

RedTagAlan · Yesterday 10:01

Calliecarpa · Yesterday 09:51

I also completely agree with @Everanewbie. The 'oh but what about...?' people drive me up the wall. It's like walking into an office of the Cats Protection League and demanding to know why they hate dogs. I can't imagine that they did the same during the investigation of sexual abuse by Catholic priests, and I can't remember ever seeing things like 'Why are you only focusing on Catholics? Most Catholics are good peaceful people and you're obviously just Catholicphobic. What about Muslim imams who hurt children? Don't their victims matter? Why aren't you talking about them? Why are you sowing division and hatred and bigotry? Men of all categories commit rape and abuse, and your report doesn't count unless you talk about all victims of abuse, and you got the wrong person to write it so I'm going to ignore it anyway'.

You complained about people using whataboutisms, then used a whataboutism.

Re Catholic priests, there was, and still is, loads of people saying whatabout the Anglicans, whatabout the local authority homes ?

CassOle · Yesterday 10:05

RedTagAlan · Yesterday 10:01

You complained about people using whataboutisms, then used a whataboutism.

Re Catholic priests, there was, and still is, loads of people saying whatabout the Anglicans, whatabout the local authority homes ?

I think you missed that the section in quote marks is not what the poster actually thinks, but an example of what they are speaking against.

ETA - please note the 'I can't remember ever seeing things like' before the quote.

Calliecarpa · Yesterday 10:08

RedTagAlan · Yesterday 10:01

You complained about people using whataboutisms, then used a whataboutism.

Re Catholic priests, there was, and still is, loads of people saying whatabout the Anglicans, whatabout the local authority homes ?

You complained about people using whataboutisms, then used a whataboutism.

Well...yes. Obviously. That was the entire point.

Re Catholic priests, there was, and still is, loads of people saying whatabout the Anglicans, whatabout the local authority homes ?

Huh, weird, because my understanding is that Anglicans are also Christians. Were/are threads on MN full of people endlessly deflecting to other religions and going 'buh buh buh butwhaddabout Muslims, butwhaddabout Hindus?'