How to respond he/she?

[Manchesteruser]

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

Where did I mention ignoring anybody?
Im happy to spend time with a trans identifying person if they don’t mind the fact that I won’t go along with the lies and pronouns hoop jumping etc.
I said I prefer to distance myself from trans identifying people because I’m rubbish at lying and I also try to avoid being rude to anybody. So it’s better for me to mingle elsewhere.
Ive got several disabilities and MH issues. I totally accept that not everyone is a great choice of friend for me or me them.

Ok so I’ll put it another way that maybe will work better for you.
Let’s say I am out with 20ish male and female friends somewhere (as a woman who does not and will not accept that eg a TIM is a woman). During this social time there is a man there who says his name is Sheila. He’s wearing a dress .
I have a decision to make
A) avoid him and spend time with other people in the group (my preference as I’m rubbish at confrontations)
B) Join in with whatever conversations he is part of because yay we are all friends hanging out together!
C) call it a night and go home. Earlier than I would have liked.

My choice is A. Because I don’t want to chat to a bloke in a dress. It’s uncomfortable for me. Hopefully I can enjoy the evening without any interactions with him. I cannot choose B because I cannot “womanface” and pretend he is something he is not. He is a man. I also would rather not endure him getting cross at my refusal to comply with his lie. And I don’t want his presence to spoil my night out. I want to be there so I don’t want to choose C.

i chose to be there. He chose to be there. I am politely avoiding him thus making one person possibly feel uncomfortable. His presence is making in fact eg 60% of the people there raise eyebrows, feel uncomfortable. Why should any of us choose B or C just to oblige him? He is the issue…… not the rest of the group.
He is choosing to be there in a way that will make others feel uncomfortable. He needs to “shun himself” and go find some like minded others. Eg other men in dresses!

Having said all that…… if he goes to use the ladies loos……I’m very willing to be confrontational and say “the gents are over there!” Because my daughter, someone else’s daughter, any woman, any age is likely already using the loos.

If the trans identifying person is a girl/woman who says she’s a boy/man. I’d feel fine talking to her because she would likely be of no threat to me. But I still wouldn’t accept the lie.

TL:DR they are the ones doing the shunning (ie by refusing to accept the truth of what they are)

Ok sorry, to me distance yourself from someone is akin to ignoring. I don't know why you say you're happy to spend time with trans people when you clearly aren't. Which is fine. It's your choice.

I wouldn’t agree that distancing and ignoring are the same thing. The latter would involve acting as though someone doesn’t exist at all, while distancing might mean greeting the person at the beginning of the event, perhaps exchanging a few words but then making oneself quite busy with an interesting conversation elsewhere. In any social gathering with enough people, there are always attendees I’d rather spend time talking to than others. Sometimes there are people I distance myself from because I feel that spending time with them will be hard work and I just want to relax. That might be because I know we have very different political views or I know that the person has form for trauma dumping or talking about themselves incessantly… lots of reasons why I might not prioritise talking to them. And this might include a trans person if my perception is that I’m going to need to walk on eggshells around them to avoid hurting their feelings. Just doesn’t really make for a relaxing occasion. That isn’t the same as shunning or ignoring though.

Again you are telling me I’ve said things I haven’t.
First it was ignoring people.
Now it’s that “I don’t know why you say you're happy to spend time with trans people when you clearly aren't” which again isn’t really true. It would make me feel uncomfortable (because that’s a normal feeling to have in the company of eg a man in a dress) The bigger issue by far is that I wouldn’t be able to tolerate their lies, their delusion. Ideally I would want to kindly talk them out of it.
Because to encourage or endorse trans behaviour is abusive. Which I’m not into. Maybe you are?

Which is why I would distance myself, which caused you to accuse me of shunning which has now become “fine, my choice”. Yes exactly.
All of which reminds me of the typical word soup that is the trans cult.

The core difference is that cross-dressing relates to clothing choices, while transgender refers to a person's fundamental gender identity. Cross-dressers typically identify with their assigned birth gender and wear clothing associated with the opposite sex for personal enjoyment. Transgender individuals have an internal gender identity that differs from their assigned sex at birth.

I didn't say anything about causes. I asked why people who are not sick are looking for a medical diagnosis and treatment if they are perfectly healthy.

Its just like gay people. There's nothing physically wrong with them but they can develop mental health problems as a result of not conforming to the norm or not being accepted.

And what do you mean by 'not always'? Are you saying that some people with gender dysphoria are not trans or are you saying that some people who identify as trans don't have gender dysphoria? Or both?

Not all trans people have gender dysphoria as their non alignment doesn't give them psychological distress or significant psychological distress that rises to the level of requiring medical help.

And I'm sure I've asked you this before (and you've declined to answer), but what do you think 'being trans' means? I'm asking here for your own personal opinion, so don't tell me to 'do my own research'.

A more closer psychological/behavioural/ cultural identification/association with the opposite sex they were born.

As are some cis people but that doesn't make all cis people AG.

What do you mean by this? Are you just saying that some men with autogynephilia don't identify as trans? And I didn't say all male trans people were autogynephiles.

I'm just saying AG doesn't make you trans. Research shows 80 to 90% of cis women engage in AG behaviour.

ROGD (social contagion) is an unproven theory.
So the sudden jump in kids identifying as trans in about 2014 was due to what? Something in the water? Climate change?

Like anything else increased social acceptance increases social visibility. The internet & Social media no doubt plays a role in increasing comfort levels in 'coming out'.

But there's no way for anyone else to tell these people apart. They are both the sex they were born as. That doesn't change however they feel about it.

Much like sexually ambiguous people attempting to use the loo of their choice?

Can you explain a bit more as to what you mean here?

No 'transwoman' is 'sexually ambiguous'

This is a perfect example of gaslighting. There was no suggestion of charging up and offering medical advice. Just a polite query about how others would respond to being asked or expected to perform compelled speech in thier social circle.
You clearly think compelled speech is fine, and that those of us who genuinely struggle to say things that don't align with reality are rude and "don't deserve to live in a civilised society".
I think a civilised society allows people to ask polite questions and consider the impacts of the language they are asked to use.
But do go on, tell us all how to think and speak and behave. It's just another day in gender-wonderland.

And they wonder why they're losing suppprt for the cause?

Its not rocket science ...

Cis gender non conforming people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/12/ive-been-spat-on-gender-non-conforming-women-tell-of-toilet-abuse-in-aftermath-of-supreme-court-ruling

This is a perfect example of gaslighting. There was no suggestion of charging up and offering medical advice. Just a polite query about how others would respond to being asked or expected to perform compelled speech in thier social circle.

There's nothing polite about harassment & discrimination which is what misgendering is considered to be legally.

compelled speech

Social conventions are "compelled speech" are they?

As for all social conventions we are all free to snub them but that doesn't entitle us to be free from consequences of social ostracism. This is no different.

I think women are rightfully fed up with men who mimic us and expect us to play along. Many years ago one of my best friends was a trans identified male who did the full surgery bit. Iwas 100% supportive etc etc. Over time though (we fell out years ago) my feelings toward this demographic have changed significantly as our spaces, language, rights, culture and definition have been fucked with to appease these people. They campaign against us. It is actually amazing to me that women are expected to give these men any time of day, let alone play along. Functionally it feels like if your country was invaded and you went out with friends who brought one of the invading people out with them and said "please use your manners and you'll need to call him "sir". Some women would be polite and think "well it's not his fault really, he's just one man and he can't help being from the invading nation, so I'll be nice". I understand why those women would make that choice, we are taught not to make waves (and clearly pressured too as well if the comments on this thread are anything to go by). But if someone decided that they would not use their manners and in fact decided to leave, I would understand that also. I probably wouldn't call them "invaderphobic" and denigrate or try to shame them.
Women are expected to tolerate endless violation from men. Colonisation of womanhood is just one more example. And you want us to be unfailingly polite about it.

The social convention is to use pronouns based on sex. The TRAs are trying to change that with no discussion, no consent, no regard for anyone else's needs. Just bullying and gaslighting. So it's a no.

But you don't know the sex when using them most of the time so the convention is based on gender presentation not sex.

Yes you do. It's only TRAs who pretend that we can't tell peoples sex.

In 99.99% of cases sex will be easily recognised.

Flip that argument the other way and you'll see the absurdity of it even further. We certainly don't know the 'gender identity' of someone most of the time as it's a concept that lives in their head.

If no one knows what sex anyone is, why do trans people want to change theirs?

Quite

Amd how does anyone know anyone's 'gender'?

Good point. Perhaps @Baileyonice could explain.

Yup, get back to us when they run the same experiment with people who never went thru their own puberty, took hormones & had surgery.

Oh, & maybe checkout the Guardian link upthread for how that "99.99"% works in reality.

They are changing their sex traits not sex. Big difference.

But a lot of them think they have actually changed sex.