Organisations refusing to give their single sex spaces policy - David Lloyd for example

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

I have been trying for a long time to get a written policy out of David Lloyds for about a year. they are still refusing to do so.

Anyone got any suggestions? And What other orgs are refusing to do it?

Is this the next trench we have to fight in? Getting the damned thing written down?

There's no excuse as DLL have family rooms too, so any trans person not wishing to use the correct sex area could go there (though may need to wait).

Kick the boys out when their 8 but let them in if they say they are trans is what they seem to be implying. Seem to think age is an appropriate category just not sex.

we will ensure that any actions required are implemented within the relevant statutory timeframe.

What relevant statutory timeframe? The law is the law now

what we know from the Supreme Court ruling

That would be that "man" and "woman " refers to biological sex only

relevant guidance across the industry

Which, regardless of what it says or what they would like it to say, must comply with the law

When an individual presents as transgender, we take the time to understand their needs and discuss what's most appropriate for them and for our wider membership.

What about when an individual presents as female and a minor? Did they even read your letter?

This is my view. Although I am supportive that that poster felt able to post, I do feel they glossed over the huge change over the last 10 years particularly for trans-identified males. TIMs used to want to be discreet, polite, respectful, but to live as female. No more, the aggression, misogyny and hatred of women and what women have achieved is off the scale. So no to all men in female areas of space, achievement, support etc.

Tbf my DL doesn't have family rooms

There is no basis in law for a 'case by case' approach. As I think DL are about to find out.
Honestly, do they think they can just make stuff up (rhetorical question, as clearly they do).

They’re really slippery about putting anything in writing, I tried to get clarification from them about their safeguarding policy for activities where under 16s and adults were mixed with no staff supervision, but they wouldn’t just email me, they wanted to meet up or have a telephone conversation. I just wanted to know what their safeguarding policy was since I imagine they’d breached it, I didn’t want to spend my day having a conversation about it. In the end, I gave up because I was planning to leave anyway, but I guess making you give up is their intention.

Wasn't Lia Thomas (American trans swimmer) swinging "her" dick around the female changing rooms?

“For clarity, all David Lloyd Clubs provide separate male and female changing rooms as a minimum”

Where is the clarity? What do they mean by male and female changing rooms as in, who can use them?

In the D Lloyd I use no boys over 8 are allowed in the women’s changing room.

Not according to this policy though….

I’d love to know what they’d say if a man claimed to identify as a six-year-old. Apparently anyone who identifies as a woman suddenly deserves special treatment, so why should people who identify as a different age not also get special treatment?!

I agree. I could claim to be Black British or of a particular faith to "gain" something. It's not true, so I wouldn't. That would not be appropriate, and I can imagine awarding bodies would have a lot to say about that. Unless.....and here we are.

My eldest is trans and uses the unisex family changing rooms. She likes to use the seperate cubicles which include a shower. Just a note, though there is room to change without the cubicles so no compulsion to use the cubicles.

I do find it strange when women use the female changing room with their naked children running all over the place rather than using the family changing room. There are also a number of cubicles in the female changing room including a couple of family sized ones.

I do find it strange when women use the female changing room with their naked children running all over the place rather than using the family changing room.

Possibly because there are sometimes men in the family changing room?

I do find it strange when women use the female changing room with their naked children running all over the place rather than using the family changing room.

I was asking leisure centre users for their opinions on mixed sex changing areas a while ago. One man said that he found it 'very disturbing' to see naked children. Make of that what you will.

IANAL but it;s my understanding that "Case by case" in law means "situation by situation" not "individual by individual". So in the case of changing rooms, what is reasonable for a swimming pool with family changing rooms could (potentially) be different from what is reasonable for a swimming pool without.

"Case by case" would not mean "is my trans child a nice person?" but "is it appropriate for a single male (with a trans id) to use the family change?"

I cancelled my DL membership for this reason and told them when they phoned. Bloody appalling. My local gym which is inside a hotel are clear on policy

I have updates on this, will cut and paste as soon as I can, but they are worse than useless and stonewalling me

If they are stonewalling, maybe they know they are in the wrong, and are behind the scenes trying to sort out a new policy? (Wishful thinking?)

Might be worth asking them if they’ve notified their insurance company they are breaking the law and putting minors at risk.

True, but they can use a cubicle so completely private.

My child was a toddler then and now as a grown trans woman is not part of TRA nor believes women shouldn't have single sex spaces - please don't tar her with the same brush!

I can’t use a cubicle. Not if there’s a man in the room. I’ve explained this beofre, it’s due to my trauma.

You will note I referenced “the TRA movement” so if that’s not your child then that’s not who I’m referring to, is it?

If I’d said “all trans people” then you’d perhaps have a point but I didn’t so don’t find offence to take.