Unite the Kingdom - LWS/WRN

[Tooting33]

I am just wondering why Tommy Robinson is so appealing to a number of sex-realist women. Kellie Jay Keen spoke at the event. My local LWS group are fully supportive, as are the leaders of my local WRN groups.
Is anyone else finding it is harder to network with gender critical/sex realist women without them also being Reform/Restore/Tommy Robinson supporters?

What? Clarity is needed. Ordinary decent men are turning into racists and misogynist because of TR? But the lickspittle hatered on display at Pro-pally jamborees are turning everyone into cuddly bunnies.?

Pretty certain they both get critiqued for it.

I agree, even I know his name before he changed it, so it must get mentioned a lot if it's stuck.

I'm seriously confused.
As for feminism being exclusively a left-wing project? That’s an interesting statement. Women of all creeds and ideologies need feminist thought - so no.
So right wing feminist goes on right wing march. [This is the characterisation.]
Presumably this reflects on right wing feminists not left wing. If it reflects on all feminists then so does whatever left wing feminists standing with Palestine Action.
All this is just 'my wing is better than your wing'. Feminism should be bigger than this.

@DangerousMind Whether you like it or not, KJK is associated with feminism and feminists, so whatever she does or says can reflect on them.

Iirc a significant faction of 'feminists' told her to fuck off a while ago. It seems that she is not feminist enough for some and too feminist for others. No wonder she rejects the label.

As to all the helpful squirrelling away online to discover the latest misdeed by some bloke representing 'the far right' politically, how about squirrelling away amongst the Lab/Lib/Green weeds to find out which of them supports putting men in women's prisons and dv shelters and RCCCs? Which of them is happy to give our rights away, to give our very name away to men who demand it? Which of them is keen for children to be gaslit and medically abused because it suits some men to do so? You'll fill the thread much sooner.

I think we'd have more chance of clarity if you could resist the urge to invent things silly things, ascribe them to me, and argue against them, rather than responding to what ive actually said.
You want to argue with me about Pro Palestine activists, because you've got those words good to go, your off the peg response, even though I've not spoken in support of them.
I don't think ordinary decent men are turning into racists and misogynists, no. I think there are some men who are racist and misogynist. I think they are attracted to TR rallies where they join with like minded individuals and encourage each other to enact their racism and misogyny.
You seem to be saying these men are being racist and misogynist due to pro Palestine marches, or...'the left'.. So are YOU suggesting they'd be 'cuddly bunnies' otherwise?

I don't think ordinary decent men are turning into racists and misogynists, no. I think there are some men who are racist and misogynist. I think they are attracted to TR rallies where they join with like minded individuals and encourage each other to enact their racism and misogyny.

Racist and misogynist men are out there in every walk of life, unfortunately. Don't really see why women on here are getting berated for it?

I am just wondering why Tommy Robinson is so appealing to a number of sex-realist women. Kellie Jay Keen spoke at the event. My local LWS group are fully supportive, as are the leaders of my local WRN groups.

No idea. He doesn't appeal to me.

Is anyone else finding it is harder to network with gender critical/sex realist women without them also being Reform/Restore/Tommy Robinson supporters?

Not at all. I don't find this in any of the networks or groups I am in.

So to most women on here who don't find Tommy R appealing, didn't attend the march, and don't recognise the OP's stated issues, there's not a lot we can do?

All I can suggest is for OP and those who don't like existing groups is to perhaps set up more groups of their own that are explicitly stating their own aims, goals, affiliations, etc.

Absurd to suggest that any person can somehow 'contaminate' feminism with their views or actions. And unfortunately although I've tried women here are not in charge of other women, groups, or Tommy R supporters.

If you mean me, I'll ask again, where in any of my posts have I berated or blamed any woman, on here or elsewhere, for the existence of racist, misogynist men? I'm talking about Tommy Robinson, a man. I'm talking about men who share his views, who assaulted women I know. Men. Racist, misogynist men.
I'm really struggling to see how you could possibly interpret that as an attack on women?

I might be missing something but I don't believe I've seen anyone berating women on here for the actions of men who (may) have been inspired by TR.

I do believe however that unfortunately, people (probably mostly men) who are predisposed to racism will have been inspired to take action by some of the amplification that TR does. I've not seen him directly incite violence but I've seen him whipping up emotions e.g. the propaganda I referred to earlier. It's a reasonable assumption IMO that such whipped up emotions would lead to some racists doing nasty things to people. This is what I understood the PP's posts to mean.

I don’t know what the correct phrase is but I thought anyone ‘of colour’ was a phrase that was acceptable in the US, but not in the UK. I thought ‘black’ was the appropriate terminology, but I’ve no idea what the right term is if anyone is discussing minority groups where the skin colour is not black. I find myself avoiding mentioning skin tone at all if I have a choice.

Why is TR so appealing to some people? Probably because they are a bit racist.

I imagine he appeals to all sorts of people you have other things in common with. Being GC. Supporting the same football club. Liking the same type of music. Thinking the same pub is the best pub in the world. Whatever. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

That was the orthodoxy way back when anti racism started in UK. The idea was 'black' was an umbrella political term [politically black]. Then brown people got annoyed and we moved on to BAME. Now as we have succumbed to Critical Race Theory the US version has taken over.
Or that was my understanding last week

We have training at work and have all the new terms for SEN but I can’t remember the last time we had diversity training beyond the equity/equality stuff. So is it now POC?

What I was asking was, do you not think that Muslims parading through the street of the capital (every Sat for 2 1/2 years), chanting hateful slogans. calling for a Globalised Intifada etc might be contributing to the raise of anti-muslim feeling or is it just all TR's fault.

You genuinely think that real racists are now coming out of the woodwork just because thanks to TR's influence it's now acceptable, and they feel emboldened to express the opinions they, up till now, have kept quite about.
There's no possibility that there's a link between the 2, no cause and effect, no effect and cause.
The fact that your female friend was targeted doesn't surprise me because it's always women and children who pay the biggest price when chest beating men get into a pissing contest.

It is perhaps worth noting that there are large numbers of Christian and Jewish men and women at the Palestine protests, not just Muslim men.

Has someone done a survey? Genuine question

What I was asking was, do you not think that Muslims parading through the street of the capital (every Sat for 2 1/2 years), chanting hateful slogans. calling for a Globalised Intifada etc might be contributing to the raise of anti-muslim feeling or is it just all TR's fault.

How is this markedly different from the claim that the actions of the Israeli government are responsible for a rise in antisemitism?

In all honesty, I think the number of racist misogynists who would be stirred to action by another groups anti semiticism would likely be small. Because typically if a person wants Britain to be white British Christian, they don't make an exception for one religion or ethnicity.
I do think that large numbers of Muslim people marching (or indeed anywhere) enrages racists.
I don't think TR has made racism 'acceptable' because I don't think the majority of ordinary people think it is acceptable, and TR does not enjoy widespread mainstream approval.
I think TR largely preaches to the choir, but in doing so provides encouragement and opportunity for racist misogynists to enact their racism and misogyny. He is not the cause, he is the exacerbator and facilitator.
That women pay the price, we can absolutely agree upon.

Your point is? There are large numbers of minority women and men attending the Unite UK march.

In my workplace we use POC if we are speaking about people with regards to something that may be a shared experience of not being white, such as racism directed at people because they are not white.
If we are referencing specific individuals or communities, and race/ethnicity is relevent, then we would go with a more specific term to indicate which community we were talking about, so black, Asian.
I'm sure there are other conventions in different places and that there are differing views on what is preferred by individuals.

Anyone who thinks there are "large numbers" of Jews at the weekly Palestine marches is oversampling for Tony Greenstein.

I think it convenient to blame TR for all of the hate that is currently on display because it saves them having to come with an explanation for why they're aligning themselves with people who are just as bad.
Claiming to be only protesting against the actions of the Israeli government, whilst matching with people who want to wipe Israel off the face of the planet, is wilfully ignorance.
Ignoring the fact that the Unite the Kingdom rallies are made up of people of all colours is more of the same.

Agree with this. It really is willful blindness not to recognise the cracks that are appearing in the concept of a multicultural society. I will never forgive the left for this.
A robust commitment to liberal secularism is the only possible way forward in my opinion. But Starmer continues to aggravate those who are expressing concerns and fails in an even handed response.