Unite the Kingdom - LWS/WRN

[Tooting33]

I am just wondering why Tommy Robinson is so appealing to a number of sex-realist women. Kellie Jay Keen spoke at the event. My local LWS group are fully supportive, as are the leaders of my local WRN groups.
Is anyone else finding it is harder to network with gender critical/sex realist women without them also being Reform/Restore/Tommy Robinson supporters?

I haven’t suggested they need ‘long-term’ residency. I’ve suggested ‘holidaymakers’ aren’t voting. Workers on short-term visas who are living here, might vote. Students might. They’re not holidaymakers.

Any more goalposts you’d like to move?

Aha. Phew!

I hoped there would be a way to prevent that bonkers idea from happening. It sounds like there is.

Yes, his exposure of non-payment of council tax was linked to it also being exposed that he couldn't vote due to not having a primary residence in the constituency in which he wanted to.

I will pick my jaw up off the floor now and put it back in the right place.

Muslims are productive members of society.

That’s rather a large generalisation and not helpful to the discussion. Some are but some are not. Some are blatantly just exploiting a system not designed to cope with their demands. Like the Muslim men who openly boast about having several wives and kids installed in flats and on benefits, all at our expense.

Those measures are already in place and have been for a long time.

They are clearly not working or even being applied though.

The divisiveness of the current situation extends to Muslims or other longer term immigrants who are working hard and contributing but seeing the blatant p*ss taking enabled by our ridiculous laws or policies. Like the First Lady of Sierra Leone who keeps a council flat in Southwark for her kids. There are 18000 on the council waiting list in that area.

I agree with you that speaking English is the big one for recent arrivals

I hope you would agree that speaking English should be a requirement for less recent arrivals too.

Approx 161,000 adults in the UK cannot speak English at all. An additional 880,000 residents speak English but struggle to do so well.

This failure to take individual responsibility to learn the language of the country costs us up to £73million per year in the NHS. A max of £12 million is for BSL interpretation so the rest is purely people who can’t speak English.

There are also huge costs of interesting in other public services and the criminal justice system.

Short-sighted cuts in, for example, teaching English to speakers of other languages often have knock-on costs elsewhere.

I didn't mention holidaymakers. Though as you know, there's no minimum amount of time needed before someone can register to vote.

No you didn’t mention holidaymakers. Which would be why my replies weren’t to you. Any other clarification you’d like?

Yet you dragged in holidaymakers in replying to me.

Really, for someone who likes to come onto threads and condescend to the rest of us, it would be an idea to keep track of your own comments on this very page.

GB News is funded out of Dubai & Reform UK is funded out of Thailand; are they both a front for the Muslim Brotherhood?

Are the football clubs Paris Saint-Germain (funded by Qatar), Newcastle United (Saudi) and Manchester City (UAE) all fronts for the Muslim Brotherhood?

Are you Ok?

You said

“My word, you're doing some heroic whataboutism to avoid the actual issue of Commonwealth voting, and the fact that Commonwealth nationals don't need to have any kind of long-term residency to get on the electoral register.”

I wasn’t doing any ‘whataboutism’ l, I was specifically responding to the suggestion that holidaymakers could vote. (A suggestion that presumably wouldn’t have been continually alluded to had the poster read the briefing document they linked which states “A qualifying Commonwealth citizen is someone who is resident in the UK and
who has leave to remain in the UK or does not require leave to remain.”)

That aside, it used to be the case that it was seen as a positive to encourage civic responsibility through voting. Now it seems that the argument is that you should disenfranchise people. I’m not sure how that helps. Those people are still here. It’s just now you’ve reduced their stake in society.

And why the focus on qualifying Commonwealth citizens rather than Danes or Poles, who can also vote in some UK elections.

Ok I'll call for any UK citizen who is no longer a resident of this country can no longer vote in it's elections. I'll go further and say any UK pensioner who is not living in this country should not get the winter fuel allowance.

Such things have been said before, and no doubt will be said again.

There is also the anomaly that while they are members of the Commonwealth neither Rwanda & Mozambique were ever ruled by Britain so why their citizens should be able to vote in the UK seems tenuous.

Why is Qatar so invested in the UK Muslim Brotherhood? Have you read their ideology and what they want for Muslims in the UK? In Qatar where foreign economic migrants have such little support or rights but they support an ideology that wants a completely different set of standards for the UK.

Are you saying Dubai and Thailand fund the Muslim Brotherhood?

Ok I'll call for any UK citizen who is no longer a resident of this country can no longer vote in it's elections. I'll go further and say any UK pensioner who is not living in this country should not get the winter fuel allowance.

UK citizens used to be able to vote in UK Parliamentary elections for fifteen years after they left the UK. The last Tory government removed that time limit so the five million Brits overseas are potentially a large constituency who could sway elections if only they all bothered to vote. Currently I beive it's less than 250,000 who can vote.

UK pensioners living in warmer countries don't get the WFA. Oddly the way they calculate this means if you live in France you don't get the WFA but if you live in Italy you will receive the WFA. It's because while they look at average temperatures for mainland France they include the overseas departments like Guadeloupe & Réunion.

The only UK pensioners living overseas who continue to receive the WFA are those who are covered by the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement as they moved to the EU before December 31, 2020.

I'll ignore the passive aggressive snark which you invariably resort to.

That aside, it used to be the case that it was seen as a positive to encourage civic responsibility through voting. Now it seems that the argument is that you should disenfranchise people.

Do you notice that word civic?

What you seem to be hinting at is that citizenship shouldn't be a qualification for voting. Why not say so and make that argument?

Thanks, my comment was in response to

If the concern is about people not being ‘invested’ where are the calls to remove the right to vote from people who live overseas? It what way are they invested in what happens in a country they no longer live in?

The poster seems to think this is the equivalent of foreign nationals being allowed to vote in UK elections and be voted into UK governments.

I think it's just a red herring, but maybe your reply will ease there minds a bit.

The Boris Johnson government also brought Gabon and Togo into the Commonwealth, for reasons that escape me. If they keep expanding the Commonwealth, and bear in mind that most if not all other Commonwealth countries restrict the franchise to citizens, the argument for having Commonwealth voting with no qualifications keeps getting weaker.

On the other hand I do think people in the British Overseas Territories should have the vote. We already did this in European Parliament elections when Gibraltar was part of the South West constituency. I'm not sure how interested your average Bermudian or Cayman Islander is in UK politics - I suspect takeup would be pretty low - but France allows the overseas territories to vote in French elections, and I don't see a good reason why we shouldn't do the same.

I can cope with those impositions. And I haven't noticed Sharia law being attempted to be imposed on me. Just the same as everyone else in the UK.

But women with little or no English immigrate here and are subjected to Sharia law. Women think they are legally married when they are not.

We can't have parallel 'courts' even if the Sharia ones aren't mandatory or recognised by the state. They are very real for some people.

France allows the overseas territories to vote in French elections, and I don't see a good reason why we shouldn't do the same.

The difference is that the overseas departments are literally part of France & administratively identical to mainland departments. Guadeloupe is administratively the same as Calvados in Normandy. Gibraltar, Bermuda etc are colonies with their own administrations not counties like Essex or Norfolk.

We've been happy to let orthodox Jews operate similar courts for many years to adjudicate on family and financial affairs. And various Christian groups to forbid remarriage after divorce. And along with the Muslim courts none of these are allowed to make decisions for children without involvement of the official Family Court. I am not sure why we should want to forbid these things just to intimidate Muslims.

Fair point, though I'm not a particular fan of French centralism either!

It varies a bit around the world. Australian external territories have the vote in federal elections; US territories don't; Denmark has reserved seats in parliament for the Faroes and Greenland which also have their own semi-independent governments.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that they deserve better representation than being part of a FCDO junior minister's portfolio. On the other hand many of them are very small, and it would be a bit absurd to have a dedicated MP elected by a couple of thousand Falklanders.

Civic duty doesn't relate only to citizens, despite its linguistic origins. It also relates to duties to a person's wider community. I don't necessarily disagree that a minimum term of residency could become part of qualification to vote. If you moved toward citizenship as qualification I think there would need to be a long lead in to allow people to register for and gain citizenship. For many people, particularly the Irish diaspora, it's never been something they've needed to do.

Broadly though I think it's a net benefit to engage people in the democratic process. As I said, removing votes from qualifying Commonwealth citizens, or others, doesn't remove them from the UK. You just then have a larger proportion of the population to whom you are saying "You can work here, you can pay taxes, but you can't vote". I'd be interested to hear why you think that would have a positive effect, rather than to make them feel less invested in the country they live in.

There are considerably less than 1/2 million jews in the UK, and the % of those that are orthodox is very small, and only they are subject to religious courts. There are well over 4 million Muslims in the UK and all of them are subject to the religious courts because Muslims are not allowed to opt out.
That adds up to a lot more women and children not benefitting from the laws of this country, all religious courts have got to go.

We'll start with the 'community' that's committing the most illegal acts and move onto the rest.

This isn't true. There's no obligation for Muslims to use sharia councils.

The idea that the Jewish and Christians don't get any criticism for their practices is a little hard to say with a straight face.

Yet, if the hard core zealots who are taking over the communities get their way, they will be and the only thing standing in the way of them taking over is us pesky non Muslims.