Unite the Kingdom - LWS/WRN

[Tooting33]

I am just wondering why Tommy Robinson is so appealing to a number of sex-realist women. Kellie Jay Keen spoke at the event. My local LWS group are fully supportive, as are the leaders of my local WRN groups.
Is anyone else finding it is harder to network with gender critical/sex realist women without them also being Reform/Restore/Tommy Robinson supporters?

"Is anyone else finding it is harder to network with gender critical/sex realist women without them also being Reform/Restore/Tommy Robinson supporters?"

There's a good reason for that.

@BonfireLady I might be missing something but I don't believe I've seen anyone berating women on here for the actions of men who (may) have been inspired by TR.

I disagree. I think there has been a bit of berating of women, particularly in the OP and the KJK comments.

But Starmer continues to aggravate those who are expressing concerns and fails in an even handed response.

Yes, not only that, he lumps us all in together and accuses us all of spreading ‘hatred’. He was VERY agitated about it on his social media at the weekend. He’s never going to understand our feelings if he just dismisses everyone as ‘far right haters’.

Yes, and PPs calling me racist for suggesting that it’s ok to question a situation where a young blonde girl is in a semi public space with two men who, by their looks, are unrelated to her after it was brought up by TR.

This is what concerns me.

Gender ideology took root because of the lack of oversight by our political class and the shutting down of debate. They are now floundering around trying to find a way out of the mess they created.

Women are trying to raise another issue that impacts women and children. This is the tensions arising between a liberal democracy and a religion, which in many parts of the world, tends towards an illiberal theocracy. This religion has been imported to the UK on a large scale in a short space of time. We know, from our experience with GI, that it is very likely that this has been done without any consideration of the possible adverse consequences for everyone involved.

We want our political class to recognise this, to be seen to recognise this and to allow democracy to do its work of struggling towards possible solutions.

Instead we get #nodebate and 'shut up bigot', yet again. Facilited by some misguided progressive people who think that the problems will just disappear if we are shut down. It didn't work for GI and it won't work for this.

Pertinent speech by Claire Fox which Labour will ignore.

https://x.com/i/status/2056746023964262457
I was only given four minutes to speak on the King's Speech, so I focused on two-tier attitudes to threats to security and why Labour, especially, always feels more comfortable targeting the 'far right' rather than tackling the more dangerous issue of Islamism. I used the 'tale of two demos' at the weekend to make my point.

Exactly @HenriettaSwanLeavitt. Which is why it surprises me that many women who have been through the genders wars can’t see the similarities between being called transphobic and now being called Islamophobia. Both are designed to shut people up and stop them asking questions.
There are women now wearing full niqab in my small town. Their oppression is clear for all to see and we are ‘far right’ or ‘racist’ for calling it out.

Yes, excellent speech. Thanks for posting it.

I do wonder if the GI battle has simply exhausted some progressive women. They have, after all, been subjected to the most awful treatment from their peers and colleagues. They want nothing more now than to return to the warm embrace of their tribe.

Anyways, relating my post back to the OP:

Restore/Reform/Tories are allowing this debate.
Lab/Lib/Greens aren't. (No comment on PC snd SNP 'cos I'm in England, but I suspect they are similar)

So women who have concerns and want to debate them will gravitate to the spaces and parties that let them. Will there be others there trying to take advantage for unholy purposes? Of course. So what? That happens in every space. If those of you on the 'Left' don't like them clumping together at that end of the spectrum, then let them talk in your space.

This is one of those threads I clicked on expecting to leave with a pounding headache. I'm pleasantly surprised by how reasonable the discussion has been. A few blips, maybe, but overall people have hashed out their disagreements sensibly.

Most of what I could have said on the issue has already been said, and said better, by others. But I just wanted to share how much I appreciated this largely respectful back-and-forth between women. It's conversations like this that keep me coming back to FWR.

What debate are you talking about?

See my post at 18:00

Thank you. So this is a debate about liberal democracy and Islam. What has been the debated and what was the outcome?

Well that's kind of the point. We haven't been allowed to have the debate. Have you RTFT?

Or outcomes of this debate amongst Restore, Reform, Tories?

X post.

Id suggest that the feeling seems to be that if the powers that be don't do something to calm the waters soon and keep calling reasonable people 'far right' for perfectly reasonable opinions that were held by the Left until 5 minutes ago, people will shrug their shoulders and say 'fuck it'. And the result will be the actual far right. Whatever that actually is.

What do you suggest the powers that be do? British people are Muslim and Muslim people are British.

Yes, I can’t stand how these so called ‘progressives’ who see themselves as soo kind are so happy to turn a blind eye to blatant oppression of women and even disenfranchisement of Muslims by others in their community with coercive voting.

People that have gone to our country to get away from an oppressive regime are being followed here by members of that regime who wish to see it recreated here. Yet instead of doing something about it our government and particularly our Prime Minister spent the weekend posting about how hateful we are.

I have never listened to a Tommy Robinson speech and know little about him (mainly due to the vast spread of obvious propaganda against him) but somehow for wanting a national conversation about immigration and public safety, our PM smears me as a follower of TR.

I just wish I could work out WHY Starmer is doing this. Is he:

a) so monumentally stupid and impervious to new information that he genuinely doesn’t get it
b) not stupid at all and has decided to fundamentally change the nature of our society through mass immigration from generally incompatible cultures for some reason best known to himself
c) is planning some changes to the electoral system like allowing 16 year olds and recent immigrants to vote (I think both possibly in his manifesto) so he thinks he will never be voted out so doesn’t care if the electorate hate him and because he is a Human Rights lawyer he views us as the enemy to be defeated?

I’m just chucking around ideas as I have no clue what his plan is or why.

Well they need to start treating us all equally and start respecting free speech. Then they need to grow some balls and stop the changes that are currently being imposed on us by foreign cultures and take action to stop the oppression of people in our society in cultural and religious grounds.

Muslims should be required to assimilate into our society like any other group should be. The majority already do but we need measures to encourage that.

What changes are currently being imposed on you by foreign cultures?

Muslims work in the NHS, in hospitality, they own businesses, they are MPs, teachers, voluteers, landlords, our emergency services, taxi drivers, friends and family members. Like Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Christian and atheists.

What else do you want from Muslims when you talk about assimilation? What measures are you talking about?

British people are also Jews, Sikhs,Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Pagans, atheists as well as many Muslim sects.
As I said previously holding a clear line. We should be a robust liberal secular democracy. No blasphemy laws by the back door, insistence on the same rights for all women and children irrespective of religion. Freedom of speech including the right to offend.
One law for all equally applied.
It's really not difficult, it just requires a spine.Why would British Muslims object?

Policies promoted by the 'Muslim Vote' campaign on its website include

• Remove teaching about LGBT issues from schools when religious parents object
• Abolish government 'extremism' definition along with Prevent programme
• Government to adopt the APPG definition of Islamophobia, which does not adequately differentiate between prejudice against Muslims and critique of religious beliefs, ideas, and practices

We already have equality laws in this country. Shouldn't there be one set of laws that protect us all equally.

Muslims work in the NHS, in hospitality, they own businesses, they are MPs, teachers, voluteers, landlords, our emergency services, taxi drivers, friends and family members. Like Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Christian and atheists.

I know what Muslims do, what is your point?

What changes are currently being imposed on you by foreign cultures?

You really aren’t paying attention are you. Try going to Blackburn, Birmingham, London or many other UK towns and tell us what you see. The most recent issues coming to light as exposed by the BBC is widespread corruption and fraud around immigration, money laundering, the import of illegal goods and use of high street shops as a front for organised crime.

What else do you want from Muslims when you talk about assimilation? What measuresare you talking about?

Measures to ensure that foreign religion and cultures are not imposed on us. Measures to ensure fair and equal treatment for all. Measures to encourage assimilation, speaking English, respect for our democracy and laws and becoming a productive member of our society.

‘Measures’ are generally things like laws and policies if you are not quite clear on such terms.