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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

US to open world’s first children’s ‘detransition clinic’ Texas hospital to offer free services reversing the effects of gender-affirming treatments

260 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 16/05/2026 10:43

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/05/15/texas-reverse-transgender-treatment-childrens-clinic/

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/05/15/texas-reverse-transgender-treatment-childrens-clinic

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polypostwonder · 19/05/2026 18:52

BonfireLady · 19/05/2026 17:21

The exchange with [me] above helped me think some stuff through on this sex realist vs trans acceptance topic.

I appreciate we come from very different viewpoints on this: put bluntly, each of us sees the other's "belief" as non-sensical and our own as position as factual.

However, I'm interested in your reflections. Specifically, I have two questions:

  1. would you consider that a viable way forward is for you to self-exclude from women's spaces and instead either advocate for third spaces for anyone to use (e.g. unisex facilities in addition to single-sex) or (probably your least preferred) use the men's?
  2. would you support a restriction on anyone under 18 (or 25?) making permanent changes to their body, to match it with their perception of their "gender"? Similar to other restrictions on permanent body changes.

Edited to add: re point 1, this is obviously in line with the law in the UK. However, I'm still interested in your answer.

Edited

I want to answer this, but I have a gym class. Would this discussion be better in a new thread? Do we want to hash this out?

BonfireLady · 19/05/2026 19:16

polypostwonder · 19/05/2026 18:52

I want to answer this, but I have a gym class. Would this discussion be better in a new thread? Do we want to hash this out?

Happy to join you on a new thread. I agree it would warrant its own, rather than derail this one. Feel free to tag me in if you start one.

nutmeg7 · 20/05/2026 16:56

polypostwonder · 19/05/2026 16:54

Please correct me.

I can’t really get any clarity on what you are actually saying here.

Are you basically saying that there are a vanishingly small number of people for whom phenotype doesn’t match karyotype? I.e. a few DSDs among the many possible DSDs and a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of human beings.

And are you using these extremely rare cases of genetic disorder to argue for all trans identified males to be allowed into spaces and groups reserved for women when these groups have nothing to do with one another?

Or are you using these rare edge cases to argue that sex is somehow impossible to define, so being a sex realist is a deeply flawed understanding of the world? Despite sex being a bleeding obvious characteristic of almost every person you meet.

polypostwonder · 20/05/2026 17:19

nutmeg7 · 20/05/2026 16:56

I can’t really get any clarity on what you are actually saying here.

Are you basically saying that there are a vanishingly small number of people for whom phenotype doesn’t match karyotype? I.e. a few DSDs among the many possible DSDs and a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of human beings.

And are you using these extremely rare cases of genetic disorder to argue for all trans identified males to be allowed into spaces and groups reserved for women when these groups have nothing to do with one another?

Or are you using these rare edge cases to argue that sex is somehow impossible to define, so being a sex realist is a deeply flawed understanding of the world? Despite sex being a bleeding obvious characteristic of almost every person you meet.

Are you basically saying that there are a vanishingly small number of people for whom phenotype doesn’t match karyotype? I.e. a few DSDs among the many possible DSDs and a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of human beings.

No.

And are you using these extremely rare cases of genetic disorder to argue for all trans identified males to be allowed into spaces and groups reserved for women when these groups have nothing to do with one another?

No.

Or are you using these rare edge cases to argue that sex is somehow impossible to define, so being a sex realist is a deeply flawed understanding of the world? Despite sex being a bleeding obvious characteristic of almost every person you meet.

No.

nutmeg7 · 20/05/2026 17:25

polypostwonder · 20/05/2026 17:19

Are you basically saying that there are a vanishingly small number of people for whom phenotype doesn’t match karyotype? I.e. a few DSDs among the many possible DSDs and a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of human beings.

No.

And are you using these extremely rare cases of genetic disorder to argue for all trans identified males to be allowed into spaces and groups reserved for women when these groups have nothing to do with one another?

No.

Or are you using these rare edge cases to argue that sex is somehow impossible to define, so being a sex realist is a deeply flawed understanding of the world? Despite sex being a bleeding obvious characteristic of almost every person you meet.

No.

Well, that’s advanced the discourse. I genuinely have no idea what you mean in that case.

polypostwonder · 20/05/2026 17:27

nutmeg7 · 20/05/2026 17:25

Well, that’s advanced the discourse. I genuinely have no idea what you mean in that case.

Your post wasn't advancing the discourse, it was presenting motivations that do/did not exist.

nutmeg7 · 20/05/2026 17:50

polypostwonder · 20/05/2026 17:27

Your post wasn't advancing the discourse, it was presenting motivations that do/did not exist.

You seemed to be saying that if you look female you are female.

Hence my trying to work out what exactly you were talking about, and bringing up outward sex characteristics vs chromosomal sex in the rare cases these are not aligned.

Although on the other thread you seem to be saying that if people perceive you as female, you are female.

If it’s neither of those things, I’m afraid I do not understand what you are trying to say.

SabrinaThwaite · 20/05/2026 19:15

Maybe it’s the very edge case of a male person whose childhood anorexia delayed puberty, and who then took oestrogen (presumably blocking testosterone at the same time) and then later had surgery?

BonfireLady · 20/05/2026 22:38

polypostwonder · 20/05/2026 15:36

I've started a thread at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532352-the-liminality-of-sex-perception-sex-based-spaces-and-bodily-autonomy

Sorry, I tried to tag you in the post, but the system wasn't accepting your username.

Glad you did this. And thank you for the tag/quote here.

AFAIK you can tag people in to threads that they aren't on but it won't get picked up until after you've saved the post. Anyway, all good as you've put the link in.

Am just catching up with MN now after a busy day.... and I think I'm going to need an awake brain for this one so will join in tomorrow after a coffee.

I will assume good faith on your part and will do the same. Obviously if I think you're deviating from that, I'll respond accordingly. And would expect you you do the same if you perceive that I'm not acting in good faith.

Edited for clarity.

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