Hamas sexual violence on 7th October attack. Content warning.

[ArabellaScott]

A new investigation has shared more information on details of Hamas' atrocities.

I do urge caution when reading, and don't if you are feeling fragile.

'An independent, Israeli investigation has published harrowing details of "systematic, widespread" sexual violence by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups during the attacks on 7 October 2023, and against hostages.
The 300-page report concludes that rapes, sexual assault and sexual torture were intended "to maximize pain and suffering".
While the UN and others have published reports on sexual violence during the attacks – in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 taken hostage – this is the most comprehensive.
It draws on 430 filmed interviews with survivors and witnesses, more than 10,000 photographs and videos filmed by attackers, and official records and material from attack sites.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgz9k7pzggo

Bit of a red flag for psychopathy, that.

Transcribed from Owen Jones video after seeing the video footage.

An exception is an unsuccessful attempt to behead a dying Thai migrant worker with a garden implement. Again, hideous to watch. If living people were beheaded otherwise, we are not shown that in any of the video footage. If there was torture too, there’s no evidence given for it on camera.

Now, if there was rape and sexual violence, we don’t see this on the footage either. Now, a warning here, for a deeply distressing description,
that a clip of an Israeli woman
inspecting a badly burned woman’s corpse to see if she was a relative. Um, she had no underwear. This has been offered as evidence of rape, but that’s not what you Would consider conclusive evidence we don't see children being killed. Hamas don't kill those poor, those two poor little boys, for example. Certainly not on camera, and I imagine we would have been told if they had been killed.

I can't stand OJ, I really can't. I think even if he had seen evidence of multiple atrocities he still wouldn't have believed. I can't say what I think about him as I would be banned. ( He's blocked me on Twitter too and I wasn't impolite. )

Entirely agree with you, at that moment it was obvious as too when the woman with stained trousers got out of a car - denials such that she had just sat in some blood were clutching at straws to exonerate terrorists. And the jeering, crowing crowds just underline that it is not Hamas alone who carried out these atrocities (though I realise that not to be there cheering was a death sentence for anyone in Gaza).

Just as aside, yes you can say Common Era but the common era in question is the Christian Era i.e. it starts in AD 1, which is the year in which it was postulated that Jesus was born, based on (I guess) the regnal year of the Roman emperor, who was Augustus. Both AD and CE are terms originating in Christianity. The monk Derek/Demetrius worked out the years since the birth of Christ (he was 4 years out, it's really 2022 apparently, so Jesus was born c.4 BC/BCE) in what became the 500s. Common Era is used not to upset some people, I suspect (doesn't change what common era it is, though).

I'm still trying to grasp whether OJ thinks it's okay for armed men to parachute into a music festival. Since he seems to be in denial, I wonder what he thought the purpose of it all was?

Owen Jones wouldn't recognise rape if it happened to him if the perpetrator was a Palestinian.

He’d still weasel his way out of it.
’Oh, the woman was killed and her body burned, but there’s no evidence of rape'. Ffs!

If OJ was able to acknowledge the evidence of what happened on 7th October, it would destroy his entire identity as the progressive, liberal, metropolitan elite who knows exactly which underdog to support.

Not only does he have to waive away or doubt the horrific violence directed at Israeli girls but in some way he has to believe they brought it on themselves. Only by doing so will his identity remain intact and justify his life long support for Palestinian causes. Ultimately it absolves him of any soul searching.

This fixed black and white thinking runs through many ultra progressive ‘intelligent’ people who passionately and fervently support causes such as Just stop oil, extinction rebellion. One side is all good and the other all bad.

The same character trait exists in TRAs and, I think, accounts for why they are unable or unwilling to acknowledge the harms being done by gender ideology. A shocking degree of narcissistic like behaviour in the case of OJ, but it goes beyond narcissism. Where exactly does it comes from… selfishness? Self absorbed? Inability to comprehend how others might feel? It’s very intense.

We see it in poster after liberal ‘right thinking’ poster on here. Coming on to say about how saying anything ‘anti trans’ is abhorrent and literally denying trans people existence. But it’s more than that. Their comments come from a place where to acknowledge concerns about impacts on women and children is denying the posters very existence as a kind and accepting individual.

Whatever their motivation, it definitely involves an intense emotion.

How anyone can deny Hamas crimes shocks me but I have noticed a pattern with people refusing to believe anything that comes out of Israel. I had a conversation with a friend regarding the report arabella shared and because of the person who conducted the report was Israeli they wouldn’t accept it wasn’t propaganda so wouldn’t read it. They’re so convinced it’s not true and just a way to make people hate Palestinians.
By the by I am not pro anyone in this besides pro woman and children. Ultimately it’s who I side with always.

Sadly in some people’s minds Israelis and Jews can never be seen to be victims.

The same thing happened after the Golders Green stabbings. People tying themselves into knots - the perpetrator had already stabbed someone else, it was mental health - anything to convince themselves it wasn’t an antisemitic hate attack.

Even on this thread we’ve seen posters who would rather focus on anything rather than acknowledge the pain and trauma of the victims.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone here’s who is contributing. I can’t bring myself to read the whole report and cannot comprehend the suffering of Israeli women (as well as international visitors) on that day. Sexual violence was clear from the outset. For me, the first I heard of the attack was at a LWS event where someone showed me a photo and there was never any doubt about what bloodied jogging bottoms means for a kidnapped woman. I’ve been appalled by the silence from some prominent feminists tbh. I thought veterans of the gender wars would be more inclined to believe women, not less. But apparently hatred of Israel is more important to some.

One thing which has really hit me is that there is no evidence strong enough which will convince the True Believers that Hamas are the bad guys. Same as when it comes to TRAs - we shouldn’t even try to change the extremists minds. My (small role) is in continuing to speak up about the horrors and I hope that is enough to convince a few more people that Jews need protection.

How on earth could he admit to doubt, now? His livelihood, branding, and persona rests on furious righteousness, it always has. Fragile ego I guess.

'a clip of an Israeli woman inspecting a badly burned woman’s corpse to see if she was a relative. Um, she had no underwear. This has been offered as evidence of rape, but that’s not what you would consider conclusive evidence'

What does he consider conclusive evidence, I wonder.

Here it is.

He needs it witnessed, but not by people who care about the victim as they are biased. Not by people who don’t like the perpetrators, ditto. By the perpetrators’ mothers, perhaps?

Which would be why we prosecute so few rapes.

I have a friend - an academic - who will ask 'did a Jew write/say it' and if so will refuse to read or believe what it says. It is a real strain on the friendship though I suspect he does not realise this.

I don't think my stomach will sustain listening to OJ - if the transcript is correct I may vomit.

He doesn't sound remotely perturbed by what he has been shown. I could only listen to a few short clips of it.

I'd have more respect for him had he ever similarly questioned Hamas' reports.

Fucking hell.

I just don’t understand it. How can people be so ignorant/racist. It’s soul crushing isn’t it that someone educated and as privileged as your friend to be an academic refuses to engage with something written by a Jewish person. I’m a very poorly educated woman, not a single qualification, not a gcse to my name. But the idea of refusing to engage with or read writing from anyone based on their race or religion smacks of stupidity to me.

I might refuse to give credence to anything written by a friend of lil’ OJ…

Oh my god! Sorry, but that is despicable. I couldn't speak to someone like that. I really could not.

Took me a while to work out who OJ was. My greedy arse just kept thinking of orange juice. OJ is an absolute prick. 🍊🥤is delicious.
I hope my angry sisters are having a nice weekend.

'OJ is an absolute prick. 🍊'
😂