Hamas sexual violence on 7th October attack. Content warning.

[ArabellaScott]

A new investigation has shared more information on details of Hamas' atrocities.

I do urge caution when reading, and don't if you are feeling fragile.

'An independent, Israeli investigation has published harrowing details of "systematic, widespread" sexual violence by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups during the attacks on 7 October 2023, and against hostages.
The 300-page report concludes that rapes, sexual assault and sexual torture were intended "to maximize pain and suffering".
While the UN and others have published reports on sexual violence during the attacks – in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 taken hostage – this is the most comprehensive.
It draws on 430 filmed interviews with survivors and witnesses, more than 10,000 photographs and videos filmed by attackers, and official records and material from attack sites.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgz9k7pzggo

Yes, the idea that there is really a pure blood line which ties 'Palestinians' directly to what is now known as Israel is false. There have been migrations and movements across history forever in this region. It was the cradle of many civilisations.

One of the biggest crime syndicates in Gaza is actually a Turkish family/clan.

If I converted to Judaism, I would be Jewish , just the same as if I was born of Jewish parents. If I married a Jewish man and had children then their DNA would reflect that and if my children took a DNA test then my origins would be reflected in those results. DNA is quite interesting as siblings might well look as if they had different ethnic origins because the traits can skip generations or just disappear.
I have some very odd DNA origins according to the test I took. My kids don't have all of the same DNA origins as me, some just isn't showing.
So relying on DNA tests really isn't a gotcha.

But the culture and the Arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula in a series of invasions at the end of the 7th century. They exported an essentially nomadic religion that owned no national boundaries into settled communities of Christians, Jews and a variety of Pagans that had existed since the Ist century CE (or AD - they both mean Christian Era) and for at least a thousand years before that for the Pagans and Jews.
The Arabs settled in the Levant are colonizers.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25079123/

'Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.'

The Dogmus clan is considered one of the most powerful and prominent crime families or clans operating in Gaza City. Branches of the family have roots in Turkey, having settled in Gaza over a century ago during Ottoman rule.

A number of Greeks have historically lived in Gaza, and more came in the 1940s when Greek refugees fled to Gaza ( when it was part of the British Mandate) to escape the Nazi invasion of Greece. in the 1922 census there was recorded a small Greek-speaking population .

There are also Bedouin and African populations living in Gaza. and, of course, there is a Bedouin population Israel itself

Actually, I don't know why the fuck I got drawn into researching that. It has no bearing on the thread.

Anyway.

Reem Alsalem has posted twice on X about Palestine since this report came out. Nothing in response to it.

I found the study you’ve linked very interesting, especially in contrast to pp’s bold claim Ashkenazi Jews were mostly converts.

She seems somewhat partisan for a UN special rapporteur on violence against women and girls.

Mind you, the UN appointed Iran to help shape policy on women's rights so.....

Not at all sure how refusing to accept racism against any group goes against talk guidelines, but good to know some are ok with hatred so long as it’s not against them or their favoured group.

You can email MN and ask what's happened. Sometimes there's auto moderation, I think ...

Thanks, it says there’s a link but there never is.

Being a Jew is a ethnicity, I’m not Jewish by religion but have 10% Jew dna

I don't get what you mean. The majority of sex crimes committed by men in the UK will be by white men, since white men are the majority. What is more interesting is offending rate by ethnic origin.
Grooming gangs are relatively rare but the number of girls raped in the UK over several decades by grooming gangs of majority Pakistani origin is c. 250k, apparently.
I don't have a clue what this has to do with gang rapes on Oct 7th - an event several years in the planning, funded by Iran and aided by Hezbollah on the anniversary of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire by Christendom at Lepanto.

Very disappointed in her. She should be objective and she is not.

Nothing. Afaik the land was bought by Jews starting in the nineteenth century under the Ottoman Empire. There has never been a place called Palestine btw. E.g. Jesus was a Jew, born in Bethlehem in Judea and he cleared the 2nd Temple of money changers. That temple was by then several hundred years old, having been built after the return from Babylon under the aegis of Cyrus the Great.

If it was random gangs from Gaza that does remove any innocence of the atrocities from the Gazan people. It's one thing to cheer on the street as bodies are processed, because if you don't you are likely to be killed by Hamas, it's quite another to join in the raping and murdering.
The UN was not necessarily any more objective than Israel, given the UN's attitude to Israel and that several (42) UNWRA employees took part in Oct 7th.
I am not sure who would be totally objective but the report as written, with pages of references, looks objective to me - and these things happened, we know because we saw the women with blood stained crotches, hardly able to walk, we saw the naked bodies of young women being spat on to cheers (willing or politic) from Gazans.

Indeed, and if we are speaking of genocide and of rape as a weapon, then the conflict in the Sudan has bucketloads and no-one seems to care. Women are raped, some commit suicide because they are taught that to be raped is shameful - let's get it out there, the rapist is the one who is shamed and should be ashamed.
There is also the ongoing horror of Yazidi women and girls still being used as sex-slaves and sold in slave markets, thousands are still missing, not all of them are dead. And to e.g. Canada's shame a book by a Yazidi woman who survived being trafficked as a sex slave by ISIS was banned from schools as it was Islamophobic. You could not make it up.
Certainly no-one could make up the horror of Oct 7th, with women's genitalia shot, stuffed with tin cans etc. Sorry, no TW for that.

Rape is a weapon of war - and is a war crime for which punishment is due. Blaming Israel and Netanyahu for not allowing an independent investigation by the highly non-independent but anti-Israel UN is a bit thick, esp as 42 UNWRA employees took part in the Oct 7th atrocities.

Plasticdreams · Yesterday 14:31
It’s simple. Hamas are a terrorist group and they have committed terrible crimes against women. IDF have also committed the same terrible crimes against women as confirmed by the UN, Humanitarian Groups and various countries. Both are a disgrace to humankind and everyone should be outraged and disgusted.
How anyone can take a side, I will never know.
I can't find your post, Plasticdreams, so have copied it. Where is the evidence the IDF soldiers have riddled dozens and hundreds of women's genitalia with bullets, stuffed tin cans up their vaginas, cut off their breasts and played catch with them (I think it is Screams then Silence that has a brief shot of this particularly gross act), left their half naked bodies spread-eagled in the road, wrists tied behind them and shot through the head, where is the evidence that they raped and murdered several hundred women at a music festival or in their homes? Where is the evidence that IDF members who have been accused of rape have not been tried?
NB It is confirmed that one UN human rights group, UNWRA, has employees who took part in the Oct 7th massacre.

My impression from the outset was that the sexual abuse had happened, at scale, and only people like Little OJ were denying it.

He should be put at a desk with this report and obliged to read it. And the one by the APPG.

Just as an aside, CE isn’t Christian Era, it’s Common Era.

And while I understand that serious documentation and evidencing was necessary for the October 7th attacks, particularly given the ridiculous denials, claims of fabrication and accusations of sympathy mongering that were bandied about initially…. We all knew what happened.
The moment that poor girl’s body was paraded through the streets with blood stained crotch, while crowds and crowds of people jeered, cheered and crowed, filmed and shared by the perpetrators, no less… we knew.

When people tell you who they are, listen. That image, and others, are in my mind whenever the tragedy in Gaza is discussed. It influences- as it should- my understanding of events there.

He was shown footage. I saw his video afterwards.

What did he say about it?

From what I remember, Douglas Murray saw the same footage and was devastated by it.

OJ was dismissive and didn't miss a beat in only allowing his thoughts to align with his political stance.

Neither of those reactions surprises me, somehow.