Looking for a gym with female-only changing rooms by sex: a journey

[2021x]

I am trying to find a gym in my city (not UK) that excludes males from the female showering and changing rooms.

I was in my gym and there was a man in the changing room- no attempt to be female other than a sports-bra- and since then I was just stressed everytime I went.

I have emailed a gym who say they are trans-inclusive on a case by case basis and said I should use the accessiblity changing room if I am uncomfortable.

I have also put up a post on Reddit in the local page - that got auto-moderated, and then the same post on the national page that is going through normal moderation.

My post says this

I am looking for XXXX gyms that have female‑only changing and shower areas that are restricted by sex, not self‑identified gender.

I’m comfortable sharing these spaces with other females, but I’m not comfortable changing or showering in areas where males may be present.

If you know of any gyms in XXXX please sent me a direct message.

Wish me luck.

Interesting point. Do you agree that a majority of sexual offences are committed by men against women? If not what sources for your stats are you using to disagree with this point?

Would you also agree that even though same-sex attracted men are less likely to commit sexual offences against women, they still do not use female spaces in toilets and gyms even though the pose no threat to women? Why do you think that is?

No one should be forced into a changing room. Forcing people into changing rooms and barring their exit is illegal.

“Elderly women” ha ha. Good one.

Just disproportionately for the male sex as a whole. I do not want a biological male in my biological female changing rooms; they have their own; they can use that.

100% of TRAs have no sound rebuttal of this point. Many simply ignore it, like Emily has done.

I wish I could remember the name of the radical feminist who described women's situation as being "born with a babymaker into a patriarchy“.

Interesting point. Do you agree that a majority of sexual offences are committed by men against women? If not what sources for your stats are you using to disagree with this point?

Yes but as noted the sub group demographics matter in terms offending.

Would you also agree that even though same-sex attracted men are less likely to commit sexual offences against women, they still do not use female spaces in toilets and gyms even though the pose no threat to women? Why do you think that is?

Practically? There's too many of them & we are already at full capacity. A few trans women here or there doesn't impact logistics as much.

@2021x You have laid down a clear boundary. You don't want to change with males. There is nothing wrong with this boundary. Beware of those who try to erode your clear boundary. Their arguments can be interesting, but always remember that they are trying to manipulate and control you.

A man could be the loveliest guy in the world and I still don’t want to shower and get undressed in front of him, or see him naked.

women don’t consent. That’s enough - we said “no”.

women are entitled to privacy and dignity as well as safety. We are not validation tools,
props or human shields for trans identified men.

My sister lives in Dublin. There is a fantastic gym chain there https://womensfitnessdublin.ie/
Are there any in the UK?

Yes. And the SC court judgment clarifies that as well as the new Keeping Children Safe in Education guidance which clarifies that no child over the age of 11 should undress in front of a member of the opposite sex.

The gig is up for the men desperate to erode women's boundaries. It's taking ages as these men are exceptionally persistent but women are finally getting our spaces back.

Many years ago I used to go to a women only gym and spa....it was great: very relaxed. I suspect many young women would now welcome this.

A new floating sauna opened up in my city a couple of years ago and it has proved a great success...but now i see they are going to start running women only sessions. I suggest most women would prefer to have women only sessions - for obvious reasons, and the demand is clearly there.

Many more “trans women” do, being men, though, than elderly women. This isn’t difficult.

No, it didn't. And that was the whole point of the recent ruling. The law had been wifully manipulated by activist organisations and in doing so had been violating female rights and protections.

You seem to be confusing legitimate and illegitimate discrimination here.

It would be illegitimate discrimination to exclude any group of male people from a male publicly accessible provision such as a changing room. It would also be illegitimate to include any group of male people in a female single sex provision over the age of around 8 years old, when you then exclude all the other groups of male people. That is also the nature of safeguarding principles, to exclude all the people in a particular category with no exceptions - and male people with transgender identities are still male people and will always be male people.

Excluding male people is also not based purely on the risk of physical harms to female people that may happen when male people access female single sex provisions. There are many other ways for a male person to harm a female person by accessing a female single sex provision and those potential harms are also considered in the formation of safeguarding decisions.

Good luck OP. I hope you find a gym near you.

My take on this, if a person with a penis is in a female changing room how are we supposed to know they are indeed a TW? So the only way to provide a safe as environment for women from male violence is to exclude all men.

If a TW has gone as far as penis removal then I really hope they are no longer a physical threat.

Most of all I’d just like cubicles and some privacy from everyone.

I suspect that going forward, given the popularity of gym going in recent times, more gyms will start to host women only sessions...thus making the changing rooms women only, by default.

Please explain why prisoner statistics are not a suitable indicator for propensity to commit a type of crime for one group of male people vs female people in the UK or all of male people vs female people in the UK, over 'offending' rates which will never be collected?

Do you believe that the offending rate for a group of male people with transgender identities are higher or lower than the offending rate of the rest of the male population of the UK?

This argument about prisoner statistics has never been explained with any success, it is a sound bite that is never backed up with even logic let alone any evidence so far. So, please by all means Emily, please supply the evidence.

And no, so far your links have not been evidence to support the argument for not accepting prisoner statistics as an indicator that male people at any stage of transition commit sex offences in the UK at the same rate or lower than the general female population. Because that would have to be the trend that the statistics show for that group of male people's risk profile to be considered to have the same safeguarding risk for inclusion in female provisions, even IF the other harms that are not based on risk of sexual assault / abuse could ever be mitigated.

Looks great. But it’s Ireland. Do they admit trans-identifying men? Nothing about it on the website.

The recent ruling regarding the Good Law Project v the EHRC did find there was “scope for a strong argument” that allowing a trans woman to use a female toilet did not amount to discrimination against biological men so I'm not so sure about an illegitimate discrimination claim holding.

@borntobequiet
My sister has been going for years and knows all the staff and a lot of the regular users. I have asked her this and she says no, and she would know!

It was legal all the time to exclude men from female only spaces, you really do have no clue what it’s about, do you? The Equality Act doesn’t grant any men access to female spaces and never did. The law hasn’t changed in any way.

The Good Law Project. My sides.

@EmilyinEverton what you have got to factor in is the affect differentiating by ‘gender’ instead of sex, has on design. My research is on toilets. Even the most progressive places won’t have men and women going to the toilet in the same environment without making the cubicle completely private. It’s in all the regulations and legislation for health and safety too - mixed sex toilets are floor to ceiling in privacy. But there’s very good health and safety reasons to not have completely private cubicles in public places.

The most dangerous time in a toilet compartment is when your life is in danger. Deaths and serious injuries can be prevented by door gaps which are only allowed in single sex toilet cubicles in a single sex environment. It allows the people outside the toilet compartment to see a person is in trouble at the most vulnerable time. This can make a life-or-death difference.

With crimes you can design-out so they don’t happen in the first place. Perpetrators don’t like witnesses.

With health, the better design for ventilation and cleaning enable single sex cubicles in a single sex environment (so they can have door gaps) be the toilet compartment design with the lowest pathogen count. Medically proven.

If you had read the judgment rather than just Maugham spin you’d know that it was made very clear that it was potentially discriminatory against women not to provide facilities with no men in. That includes your “trans women” friends, Emily.