Watch in real time as Trans Reddit turns on one of it's own for suggesting that maybe they are biological men and arguing they are not makes them look unstable.

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1t0t604/trans_girl_says_were_all_biological_males/

Magical thinking in British politics is the preserve of neither the left nor the right. Magical thinking in British politics has really been the driving force in politics for well over a decade now.

Talk of reality or having difficult conversations about complex issues which don't necessarily fit with ideological narratives IS what British politics has sought to avoid and has been capitalised on by others.

We started to have conversations about leaving Europe because of a failure to look at and address a shrinking gateway of opportunities for white working class families when access to training and apprenticeships in manual jobs stopped and was replaced by already trained individuals from overseas at a time where the manual job market was already shrinking as manufacturing went overseas. This has damaged our strategy self reliance and exposed us more to economic and political shocks. Leaving Europe then exposed us to more issues which we haven't addressed because we havent looked at the internal infrastructure of manufacturing and farming within the UK. We continued to look outward rather than internally deal with our own shit. And we were too busy pretending NI and the Good Friday agreement was unimportant. We just talked about trade deals with places further away, didn't think about transport costs, times and political stability and the known issues with the sustainability of fossil fuels long term and instead obsessed over barriers to prevent pesky competition to our British businesses who now couldn't export and subsequently went under, whilst expecting we would be included in border entry systems just like we were before without finger prints and visas. We didn't sort out that ongoing issue over energy and just had a bit of an argument about whether it was a good idea to allow the Chinese to invest in British nuclear power or not and just kicked the can down the street. Whilst franchising the train network to a bunch of European companies (some of which are part state owned) rather than considering long term issues with congestion and public transport particularly in provincial areas which were losing most employment opportunities. We didn't want to have a conversation about cultural clashes and gentrification and how that put pressure on long standing established communities. We wanted microwave ready meal politics with politically correct optics and narratives.

No one has made a fucking decent decision that recognises reality and that subjects are difficult and complex in British politics for at least fifteen years. No one wants to grapple with anything that is 'unkind' or 'a bit more complex and much more dull as fuck than you are making out'. It's all simple thought terminating concepts and ideology.

We've instead played a game of Fudge it, Forget and Fabricate. You could stick that neat little slogan on the podium of every single political party right now.

Orwell got this so right in both Animal Farm and 1984. I wonder how he would have dealt with Genderthink.

And the idea that a person might have a gender different from their sex is embedded within all sorts of advice books for children and teenagers. It is standard. Could everyone please start checking, noting and photographing the pages that say this when you are in the library or bookshop? ( I hope to do this soon.)

NB : they do not say ‘some people think their bodies are fat when they are thin, but it is very important for them to be true to themselves’.

Some people feel their arm or leg should not be there, but this is a valid feeling.

To those who have been so horribly treated, I am so sorry. The cruelty and the selfishness of some in this movement has to be seen to be believed.

@OpheliaWitchoftheWoods

It's not just their side. The man who told me that I chose to have C-PTSD (because I was trafficked and physically abused as a child) and that I should reframe my trauma is GC.

It's cruel, no matter which side does it. It is very triggering for me.

I assume so, but wouldn't know for definite.

Annoyingly others reported the comments and they were removed. I would have preferred them to stand so people can see the truth about what is being said.

to other victims of abuse and comments.

I remember that. I’m so sorry.

see also a man saying stupid women deserve to be safe in toilets as much as any other woman.

and yes. On this board.

Not even an SRY gene, or something like. There is some magic girly essence that only women acceptable to TERFs have.

They've jumped the shark here right? I mean c'mon. Is this DARVO? Where they take our discussion points and twist them around to fit their point of view. I'm not sure which is more ludicrous, this saying that women believe in a "magic girly essence" that we all share or a post I saw a few days ago where somebody claimed they had been asked by a taxi driver how much they got paid by the government for being trans. And then the replies were all like "oooo how do we get our government trans money ha ha ha what a stupid thing to say".

Sorry, reading back a bit and seeing I've jumped on with a silly comment at a serious moment

Wonderful! I am going to steal that phrase!

It is because we have opposite facial expressions to cats. When we dislike something, we squint our eyes, and when we like something, our eyes become big.

Cats squint at things/cats/people they like and make their eyes big when they want to scare someone away.

If you want a cat to approach you or accept you approaching it, you should squint your eyes at it.

I have let the delusions that go with Alzheimer's pass by without challenge - if my father said his father (dead since 1961) had just called in, I expressed interest and left it at that. Maybe it did happen - people at the end of life seem to live in some liminal place.

I have mentally disagreed but said nothing when a house-mate with schizophrenia said the devil had been appearing to them in smoke and speaking to them (I did however remove the knives from the kitchen and bar the door to my room at night).

I have hastily changed the subject when anorexic relatives started talking about food and body size.

So I know that going along with the expressions of an unwell mind sometimes seems justified to keep a relationship going.

But to complain because a dog or a parrot does not shape its perception of the world to match that of the gender-crazed egomaniac in your life seems - extreme.

In my post, I was defining the classes for your class-based system.

Oh yes, I remember Mr Italicises Random Words.

Dammit, what was his username?

Not at all. I believe sex realists are attempting to replace one social rule set with their own, based on their own cultural values. There is no biological truth tied to spaces and interpersonal relationships, it's just gender with a new name.

When I changed sex, there was a symmetry amongst trans men and trans women. We shared the same goal, and largely achieved it. There were Christians who decried both trans men and trans women because of their cultural values, but Christian values generally were actively diminished during the 90s and 00s. The sex realist campaign against trans women is a whole other level of social hodge podge. The meme with the manic guy and the pinboard comes to mind.

Incidentally, I have had at least four posts removed when speaking about my rape. I have been told by women here that I must reframe the act and the intentions of my attackers because what was uncovered in court is impossible.

I remember but I’m not sure if I’m allowed to say.

can you explain to me how I know what is in the mind of the man who enters a female single sex space?

I’m not sure what your point is about rape, because I have definitely never said that to you.

How many times have you taken a pregnancy test? Or been asked whether you have children?

These are sex-based phenomena.

I have no clue what is in your mind, or the mind of anyone else.

I've never told you that the act didn't matter and it was the inclination of your rapist. I don't see the connection to my original post...

("I’ve been told before on here - in relation to my rape - that it’s not the act that matters it’s the inclination of my rapist.")

I don't know the total number of pregnancy tests I've had done, one was done after my rape before I told them I didn't have a uterus or ovaries. I have children. They're adopted. What is your point?

Thank you, Taztoy. I appreciate it.

I'm sorry that I didn't see the thread where someone said it was about the inclination of your rapist and laughed at you. That's vile. Who cares what your rapist was thinking? That's awful that someone said that to you! I'm sorry that happened.

I know that talking about rape or its sequelae makes many, especially men, uncomfortable so they try to shut it down. Often by discrediting the woman or the story. I see what happened to us and others on FWR as part of that. If they deny it, it didn't happen because what's the word or experience of some silly wimmin against theirs? That also discredits anything else we say.

It's also a bullying tactic; it triggers many of us who have experienced trauma. If they can't discredit us, they'll drive us away and punish us so that we won't do it again. It makes it harder to talk about rape or trauma responses. I try to keep talking/posting but it's hard.

I don't know the total number of pregnancy tests I've had done

I suppose that this medical error is what happens if children have their puberty interrupted. In that respect, you are a one in several million outlier. You've never chosen to take one, whereas most of us have. And you know that the answer will always be "not pregnant".

Do you think that Isla Bryson ever gets asked to take a pregnancy test? If not, why not?

I've never purchased a pregnancy test or requested one be done in a clinic. In my experience, it seems to be a standard non-consented add-on in many medical encounters.

I don't understand what relevance Isla Bryson has to this discussion. Is it the shibboleth of 'look at all the non-passing older transitioners' or is the 'trans rapist!' one?

I believe sex realists are attempting to replace one social rule set with their own, based on their own cultural values. There is no biological truth tied to spaces and interpersonal relationships

What on earth does this mean, @onepostwonder?
Biological truths are things like:

• Male athletes are 10% faster and up to 200% stronger than female ones;
• The discrepancy between male 'urges' and female ones, coupled with the size & strength differential, means females are at significantly greater risk from males than vice versa, or from their own sex;
• Unwanted sex can lead to lifelong consequences for female people, which do not apply to male people.

Real-world cultural effects include facts such as:

• Males are promoted more, and paid more, than females at work;
• The working world is insufficiently adapted for childbirth;
• Female people are the default parents and housekeepers;
• Things, from seatbelts to electric drills, are designed for the male user;
• Medicine has only just discovered that female bodies aren't just smaller male bodies with different reproductive organs.

The list of ways in which a male-centred world disadvantages female people is immense. To ensure anything approaching fairness, adjustments have to be made. These include spaces reserved for female people.

Presumably you weren't trying to say there's no such thing as a space which, by virtue of its existence, is tied to biological sex? Though I suppose you could argue that places where a woman gives birth would be one such. And menstruation huts.

Agree.