Watch in real time as Trans Reddit turns on one of it's own for suggesting that maybe they are biological men and arguing they are not makes them look unstable.

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1t0t604/trans_girl_says_were_all_biological_males/

I don't think it's accurate to call it stupidity. In many cases we are seeing the logical and inevitable outcome of a generation that was raised with genderwhang, affirmed, and saw 'gender identity' lauded and lionised.

I'm not going to call some random young people stupid when they've been fed this stuff from institutions and organisations that really ought to know better.

I genuinely didn’t realise people were actually so stupid.

Schools and other public institutions are falling over themselves to prop up the belief that people can change sex. Trusted adults are telling children it's possible, either directly or by omission of facts.

I'm 3+ years in to a journey which is slowly heading towards common sense when it comes to education. However, one current sticking point is that apparently school staff couldn't possibly help my daughter to understand that she is a biological female because they are not qualified to do so. WTAF?

(For additional context, she is no longer gender questioning, so this is about helping her to maintain an understanding of biological reality, nothing more).

Obviously my pushback was a little more eloquent than "WTAF" but that was the summary version. If adults who work in a school can't understand that nobody changes sex, what chance do the children have? They will grow up to be very confused adults... which is presumably what's happened here... (see also Arabella's post up thread, which covers this)

Edited to add: I see you've put another (summary) version of what you said up thread just above my post here @ArabellaScott It was your longer version earlier in the thread that got me "delurking" to join in.

In the words of people with trans identities - animals don't play along.

The owners should send these animals to my daughters' school. They'll be gaslit and shamed into line in no time.

The opposite side of this coin would suggest animals validate the sex of others. Is the sex realist belief now saying those trans people Disney Princessing through life are genuinely their sex?

No

Essentialist beliefs do tend to reinforce themselves.

Bloody Hell! Is this a school for those planning a career in the Neo Red Guard?

I do wonder if the dogs would resist the programming, though...

ETA. Apologies for the flippant comment, Bonfire. I suddenly remembered that you have been through the wringer due to this school. 💐

While the NHS is still offering hormones to 'affirm' gender identity and enable people to have 'sex change' surgery, it's entirely unsurprising that people will look to this august edifice and institution and consider that it is an authority on the subject.

Oxford University is supporting a man wearing giant rubber breasts to teach students.

The NSPCC:

'A child or young person's transition may involve changing the way they look or dress. For example, they might want to wear makeup or shave their facial hair. Some children may also want to visit the doctor to get support or discuss their options for medical treatment. Your GP should be able to provide advice and guidance about what options are available to support children and families.'

www.nspcc.org.uk/advice-for-families/gender-identity/

Is the sex realist belief now saying those trans people Disney Princessing through life are genuinely their sex?

Eh?

Are transwomen who "Disney Princess" their way through life genuinely their sex?

Yes. They are.

They are genuinely males (their sex) who identify as a Disney Princess version of a woman.

But the genuine sex bit remains unaltered by their "gender expression", whether they are channelling vulnerable and quaint little Snow White (who needs a manly hero to save her by kissing her.. while she's unconscious.. ) or Moana (who is badass).

WTF do Disney Princesses have to do with anything?

These are cartoon representations of fairy stories.

They have nothing to do with real life or biological fact.

Sadly I agree.

But the really sad bit (to me) is that every adult in a school should be able to contribute towards a child understanding that there are easy ways to know if you are a biological female or a biological male.

Gender identity is the difficult bit, where it all gets contentious. Biological reality should not be. If the staff are confused about this, they won't stand a chance following the statutory safeguarding guidance (and Equality Act) to keep biological males out of girls' facilities at school etc.

But... as we know, school leadership teams, governors and higher have lost the plot on this.

WTF do Disney Princesses have to do with anything?

I'm sorry you didn't get the connection. Disney princesses tend to find themselves with magical relationships to animals as part of the story. There are plenty of trans people who reference the sudden positive attention of animals as natural validation (especially those who show a dislike of people of their previous sex). Just as MN is currently referencing the opposite as natural invalidation.

These are cartoon representations of fairy stories.

Yes.

They have nothing to do with real life or biological fact.

No, usually not. But neither does sex realist belief.

Well, its good you're here to represent the anti-realists, onepost.

I identify more of a representative of those who share a philosophical perspective rejecting the idea that people socially and culturally possess an inherent, fixed essence based on the condition of conception.

"rejecting the idea that people socially and culturally possess an inherent, fixed essence based on the condition of conception."

Ahh... yes. Scientific understanding and material reality.

Glad that you admit that you reject both in regards to this issue.

Nobody has a "previous sex".

neither does sex realist belief.

Um.

Thank you for coming on and demonstrating in real time (on ax thread about demonstrating this in real time) that there are people who believe humans can change sex.

Thinking about whether or not human beings can change sex.... This feels like a perfect moment to remember that human beings aren't clownfish.

Tuuuuuuuuuuuuuune! 🎶

Sad. Until the clownfish evolve to create and maintain complicated social structures and culture, they'll never be human.

Sad indeed. But as the clownfish are unlikely to know what they are missing, it's not as sad as the very hard-hitting message about all the harm that is happening to the humans who have been led to believe that they can achieve what the clownfish can re biological sex.

I completely agree. Social and cultural norms are a different thing from sex and should not be forced on people on account of their sex.

You, for example are free to adopt the social and cultural norms more usually associated with females, despite being male. This is a good and feminist thing, except when sex matters.

I think you may have got us confused with religious conservatives.

rejecting the idea that people socially and culturally possess an inherent, fixed essence based on the condition of conception

This is muddled. People are conceived one sex or the other. This is fixed.

Social and cultural stereotypes, or what you term 'essences', are applied to people on the basis of sex, but are arbitrary, subjective, and mutable.

It doesn't matter what hairstyle or clothing a person adopts, or what plastic surgery they may choose to have. Their sex is unaffected.

an inherent, fixed essence based on the condition of conception

I really like this phrase. It's a lovely way to describe adherence to sex-based stereotypes.

"The condition of conception" has a far better ring to it than "sex assigned at birth". Arguably, it's also more accurate because sex isn't assigned at birth but it is indeed a condition of conception. Well, it's a "condition" (that of being male or female) that results as a consequence of conception.

Have we had any visitors from "the other side...." come to rant yet?

"rejecting the idea that people socially and culturally possess an inherent, fixed essence based on the condition of conception."

Sex categories in humans are not 'essences'. I think you will find that you believe that what makes you 'female' as you have declared that you are is that social and cultural 'essences' can change sex classification in humans. It doesn't. Sex classification is based only on body formations around gamete production. Just because you removed your ability to produce small gametes, doesn't change your sex category to female.

Hope that helps.