'Trans people are just trying to exist'

[GCScot]

Anyone seen this? Billboard in central Edinburgh. Wondering whether there are more across the country?

I had completely missed this at the time (and I'm from Edinburgh!). Wow.

https://forwomen.scot/11/10/2018/woman-banned-from-lothian-buses/

So much for the claim by a pp that 'of course a fuss wouldn't be made!'

I was just thinking, a counter-argument to drawing a parallel between the two posters could be, "Yes, but the Woman = AHF poster 'targets' transwomen by 'denying their reality'" or some such.

So I thought, what would be a closer equivalent, then?

Maybe, "Women are just trying to exist"? Hm. Not possible, because the whole issue is that that word now includes transwomen.

Or perhaps, "Cis women are just trying to exist"? Nope, cos that excludes those of us who don't identify as "cis".

In which case, "Adult human females are just trying to exist"? Well, obviously not, because we then hit the exact same issue that got the poster above taken down.

There's nothing left.

NO way left to say this AT ALL.

So, tell me again: which group is being erased "from existence"?

Thanks for posting this, it's really highlights the craziness of what is being censored under the radar.

@Jo7890123
The problem would be if you wished to denigrate the rights of another group to exist, or to express themselves calmly, peacefully, and without harming anybody.
https://terfisaslur.com/

What were you saying about a line?

Does anyone know if there's a site documenting all the video footage of people being disciplined for not saying there are five lights? I know I saw one of a boy in Scotland getting suspended for saying there were two genders, I wouldn't mind rewatching it now to see how it stands up through the haze of COVID and all the news articles showing how there is in fact a very real clash of rights going on where we've all been told there isn't one.

At least the guidance will be out soon, there aren't really any more delays for Phillipson to try without reeeeaaaaallllllly showing the spotlight on it all!

Is trans short for transvestite?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33r5d6n635o

Trans is short for transgender.

It is quite the thing how women who claim a trans ID are becoming completely sidelined with time.

Almost like the whole trans thing is about the menz. Which was he vibe I got whe I first clocked the trans thing (and I don't claim any brilliant insight here, I was actuslly late to.the party) that it is a MRA thing.

A little bit lately the bearded ladies have been given a nod cos they've become useful for pushing men's requirements. As in, women can look like men now, so you gonna exclude the masculine women?

Do we need to stop engaging in this? And here I am engaging!

Part of the warfare is to engage us.

Yes. To me. They’ve ditched the word but it still applies. Men dressing up as women and less often vice versa.

Honestly half the problem is them going on and on about it. If they just got on with things and said they’re trans. Like a third category nobody would care. It’s the insistence of the pretence that’s the problem. Men? No. Women? No. Trans? Yes. Third category. All good.

Perhaps that's the problem. Maybe being trans is not something that really exists in the person themselves but a kind of cooperative roleplay between them and everyone else. Maybe they stop being trans if we don't all clap our hands.

"trans people exist" is like "there are fairies at the bottom of my garden", "the world is flat" and "i am the Queen of Sheba". Nah. All 🐂💩

Yep, this is increasingly noticeable. It's almost as if, hmmm, I don't know, that sex matters in the way humans are treated, even when declaring a trans identity.

There was a really thoughtful, engaged TiF that used to frequent these boards, seethlaw I think was the user name? Anyway, even in the trans community, that poster's experience was that the ones always being centred, being the loudest, the most aggressive and bullying were the....TiMs! To absolutely no one's surprise. I think this is what caused the scales to fall from their eyes; that at the end of the day, no matter the identity, male people always trump female people. This does not change one bit when male people grow their hair or put on dresses. It's meaningless.

Women just do not matter to men. Even with a trans identity. Unless they can be used as a stick to beat other women with, or serve a useful purpose. Otherwise they are not seen as important. Which this poster clearly demonstrates.

Yes!

Somewhat revealing about the movement that their two favourite slogans are concerned with biological men:

We always hear TWAW, rarely (never?) TMAM

TERF stands for Trans- Excluding Radical Feminists. It protests feminists excluding men from the definition of 'woman' and ignores the fact that transmen are included in the definition

That’s true

They’ve inadvertently proved our point for us. We are pushing back on Men using female provision. If they really thought we were transphobic, they would have put trans identified women on the advert.

Mr Harrop’s arguments have not aged well have they.

Agreed.

Although he doesn't actually have any arguments. Just "Her poster was transphobic in context. And the context is, er, that she is transphobic".

Which is an ad hominem argument. Presumably if a trans ally had put the poster up it wouldn't have been transphobic 🤷

Oh, you didn’t really take that seriously, did you?

However, @tiredmummasita is right. In the end, it does really stand for transvestite, because no one can actually change sex, and gender is a social construct. If some men want to grow their hair, wear make up and dresses and adopt stereotypically female hobbies & interests, they are more than welcome to do it. If they want to get cosmetic surgery to alter their male body to resemble a female body, then I guess that’s ok too, although I’m not sure the NHS should fund that. But they cannot claim to be women, and need to campaign for and use unisex spaces and stay out of female only places.

Exactly. Because if people don’t keep clapping for them by treating them as if they were not men, not special, then what will they be?

But if we don't engage, they have the floor - or the thread - and the undecided and uninformed have access to nothing but the bullshit.

Its exhausting and tedious and makes me want to throw things, but I still keep plugging away for sake of the lurkers.

And to let the TRAs know that we will go on and on and on pushing back. They ain't winning this one.

This absolutely hits the nail on the head.

A bit like the Zen saying 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?'
If a transwoman was alone on a desert island, how would they know what gender they were?

Socially constructed = not biological
Socially constructed = stereotype for that community

I mean I’m fairly certain that trans identifying men would not identify into being a woman extremist cultures if they were allowed to.

To be blunt,
Male foetus’ identifying into being aborted for being female
Boys identifying into wear a burqa at puberty
Men stopping driving
Men identifying into having to prove they were raped by having two women witnesses to 1 man
Boys identifying into being banished from sleeping at home and forced to having to sleep overnight in a field hut because they have their period.

You can’t identify into those things and so how can you use socially constructed ideas to identify as a sex?

So with those examples in mind, what are men identifying into in the west?
Pretty clothes? Feminine mannerisms? Genuinely what? None of these things make you a woman.

I think it is a matter of what they are identifying out of.
e.g.
being a gay man
being a 'failure' of a man in a macho capitalistic society

And for some (most?), it is purely a sexual fetish.

You've hit the nail on the head

Except... It's not co-operative roleplay, it's coercive. Which, for some AGPs, is what makes it so exciting