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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Trans people are just trying to exist'

87 replies

GCScot · Yesterday 12:38

Anyone seen this? Billboard in central Edinburgh. Wondering whether there are more across the country?

'Trans people are just trying to exist'
OP posts:
terryleather · Yesterday 14:42

INeedAPensieve · Yesterday 14:00

Of course, if a women's group put up a billboard in Edinburgh talking about our human rights and wanting to exist there would likely be hissy fits thrown and probably protests beside it, likely vandalism too. Hopefully people just do what I did, have a quick glance, shrug and walk on to get on with their lives.

That is more or less what happened when KJK put up her Adult Human Female billboard in Liverpool in 2018.

Woman billboard removed after transphobia row

What KJK's billboard said was factually correct and then we have this...

Billboard

Woman billboard removed after transphobia row

An advertising company has removed a poster after saying it was "unaware" of its customer's "motive".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650462

SirChenjins · Yesterday 14:42

Jo7890123 · Yesterday 14:21

"Of course, if a women's group put up a billboard in Edinburgh talking about our human rights and wanting to exist there would likely be hissy fits thrown and probably protests beside it, likely vandalism too. Hopefully people just do what I did, have a quick glance, shrug and walk on to get on with their lives."

Actually, no one would be likely to mind, as long as you kept to expressing what your rights were, what rights are lacking, and what you'd like to change (and there were actually lots of posters in cities for International Women’s Day (March 8), can't see any sign of anyone being annoyed about that or complaining...).
The problem would be if you wished to denigrate the rights of another group to exist, or to express themselves calmly, peacefully, and without harming anybody..and that is the line that many anti-trans statements cross.

Edited

Do calls to decapitate and hang terfs, or fuck women with GC views with a splintery rolling pin count as peaceful and harmless in your book?

INeedAPensieve · Yesterday 14:48

SirChenjins · Yesterday 14:42

Do calls to decapitate and hang terfs, or fuck women with GC views with a splintery rolling pin count as peaceful and harmless in your book?

Yep, I was going to respond saying this since they quoted me originally, but you got there first. It doesn't sound very peaceful and harmless to me, does it?

BettyBooper · Yesterday 14:49

SirChenjins · Yesterday 14:42

Do calls to decapitate and hang terfs, or fuck women with GC views with a splintery rolling pin count as peaceful and harmless in your book?

If words can mean whatever you want, then yes I guess so...

SirChenjins · Yesterday 14:58

INeedAPensieve · Yesterday 14:48

Yep, I was going to respond saying this since they quoted me originally, but you got there first. It doesn't sound very peaceful and harmless to me, does it?

Well quite. Perhaps that poster is unaware of the less than peaceful behaviour that the TRAs - including one on here with a lot of violent imagery in his head - have been exhibiting in recent years?

Catiette · Yesterday 15:01

"Exist" is such an interesting choice of word. Clever in some ways, infuriating in others.

I guess, to the random layperson, it's pitifully emotive. But it actually lays bare the extremist character of the movement. I mean, the more predictable, honest choice would be "just want to live [our lives]" - and I imagine that's what many of the most vulnerable trans-identifying people who aren't aggressively activist would prefer.

"Exist", though, disregards any simple, shared needs with which everyone can empathise (to live with accessible facilities / freedom from prejudice etc.) to instead make "being validated as female/male by the random passerby" the thing that's absolutely fundamental.

Also (and I may be overreaching myself here, but I think there's some truth to this...) whereas "to live our lives" feels like it has a more positive focus - a meaningfully active, hopeful verb phrase - "exist" is all negative connotations of death, denial, negation etc., and passive as anything.

It also puts all the responsibility onto the interior perception of the person seeing the billboard: if you don't validate trans people, they may as well not be alive. It's gaslighty, and even irresponsible.

And so the more meaningful, essential and accessible needs lower on Maslow's hierarchy - needs that they'd argue themselves are still not yet met - just get swamped in this total overreach.

It's maddeningly self-defeating.

Easytoconfuse · Yesterday 15:24

WallaceinAnderland · Yesterday 13:07

It's always the hyperbole isn't it. How can you claim to not exist when you're right there telling people that you exist. How can you claim you have no rights when your rights are enshrined in law. How can you claim to be the sex opposite to the sex you are?

They need a new angle. They need a proper plan on how to ensure they can access public spaces, just like women did originally by campaigning for female only single sex spaces and just like people with disabilities did more recently by campaigning for accessible spaces and suitable parking facilities, etc.

They need to stop whining about what they can't have and work together to achieve something that they can have. Progress does happen but it can't happen by regressing the rights of others.

Think again. Look at what you want -v- what you need. Be sensible. Get organised. Earn some respect.

What? You want them to do the boring stuff when they'll have so much more fun playing 'I'm the victimiest victim of all?' And that sound you can hear is my English teacher rotating in her grave

Easytoconfuse · Yesterday 15:27

SirChenjins · Yesterday 14:05

It's all very tedious, isn't it. Like navel gaving teenagers who 'just want to be my own person and live my own life' which is, of course, a euphemism for 'I want to do FA round the house and so just get off my back, OK'.

And can you give me a lift and I need some extra cash and what I want to wear tonight isn't clean and needs ironing.

Being said 'no' to a lot more when they were younger would have done a lot of people a lot of good, as would teaching parents that we're not here to be their friends. We're there to alternate monster slaying, teaching them to slay their own monsters and being the evil spoiler of fun (Aka the voice of common sense.)

Edited because of the ghost of the English teacher threatening to haunt me if I didn't correct my spellings and read before I post. Sorry, Miss Burchill. I'll do better next time because you were amazing.

Easytoconfuse · Yesterday 15:29

INeedAPensieve · Yesterday 14:48

Yep, I was going to respond saying this since they quoted me originally, but you got there first. It doesn't sound very peaceful and harmless to me, does it?

Perhaps those words have a different meaning to some people just like 'woman' does?

AprilMizzel · Yesterday 15:31

Existing just isn't the problem - that's fine most have no issue with that at all.

Its' the endless and relentless encroaching on female rights, voices and spaces that the problem.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 15:47

Emotional blackmail is their favourite go to controlling manoeuvre, deflect the responsibility for all problems onto others by claiming they're just innocent. Portraying themselves as victims so as to manipulating others into defending them, and even when it's not in the best interest of others to do so they do.
But it's not a cult.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · Yesterday 15:47

Exist away outside of women's single sex spaces. Crack on chaps.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · Yesterday 15:49

Catiette · Yesterday 15:01

"Exist" is such an interesting choice of word. Clever in some ways, infuriating in others.

I guess, to the random layperson, it's pitifully emotive. But it actually lays bare the extremist character of the movement. I mean, the more predictable, honest choice would be "just want to live [our lives]" - and I imagine that's what many of the most vulnerable trans-identifying people who aren't aggressively activist would prefer.

"Exist", though, disregards any simple, shared needs with which everyone can empathise (to live with accessible facilities / freedom from prejudice etc.) to instead make "being validated as female/male by the random passerby" the thing that's absolutely fundamental.

Also (and I may be overreaching myself here, but I think there's some truth to this...) whereas "to live our lives" feels like it has a more positive focus - a meaningfully active, hopeful verb phrase - "exist" is all negative connotations of death, denial, negation etc., and passive as anything.

It also puts all the responsibility onto the interior perception of the person seeing the billboard: if you don't validate trans people, they may as well not be alive. It's gaslighty, and even irresponsible.

And so the more meaningful, essential and accessible needs lower on Maslow's hierarchy - needs that they'd argue themselves are still not yet met - just get swamped in this total overreach.

It's maddeningly self-defeating.

Quite.

If someone is threatening self harm to control you, the best thing to do is inform the police that they are at risk, and leave it to the professionals.

If someone is going to have an existential crisis if they are not allowed to destroy women's spaces and access and rights, then the best thing to do is probably to find a good therapist.

TheBeaTgoeson1 · Yesterday 15:50

Love this, thanks for sharing ❤️

TomeTome · Yesterday 15:50

Well they do exist so what’s the problem?

GimmieABreakOr3 · Yesterday 15:54

Ew

ZoeCM · Yesterday 16:00

So much of the language around trans activism sounds like something from an angst-ridden fourteen-year-old's diary.

"They don't want me to EXIST"

"It's not my birthname, it's my DEADNAME"

"They're not real feminists, they're TERFs"

lifeinthelastlane · Yesterday 16:10

Jo7890123 · Yesterday 14:21

"Of course, if a women's group put up a billboard in Edinburgh talking about our human rights and wanting to exist there would likely be hissy fits thrown and probably protests beside it, likely vandalism too. Hopefully people just do what I did, have a quick glance, shrug and walk on to get on with their lives."

Actually, no one would be likely to mind, as long as you kept to expressing what your rights were, what rights are lacking, and what you'd like to change (and there were actually lots of posters in cities for International Women’s Day (March 8), can't see any sign of anyone being annoyed about that or complaining...).
The problem would be if you wished to denigrate the rights of another group to exist, or to express themselves calmly, peacefully, and without harming anybody..and that is the line that many anti-trans statements cross.

Edited

No. Lothian Buses (based in Edinburgh) refused to carry a bus ad that said woman: adult human female on it.
2018 I think.

lifeinthelastlane · Yesterday 16:12

@GCScot could you see who it's sponsored by? I can't read what's on the bits of white paper on the poster

KaleidoscopeSmile · Yesterday 16:16

Jo7890123 · Yesterday 14:21

"Of course, if a women's group put up a billboard in Edinburgh talking about our human rights and wanting to exist there would likely be hissy fits thrown and probably protests beside it, likely vandalism too. Hopefully people just do what I did, have a quick glance, shrug and walk on to get on with their lives."

Actually, no one would be likely to mind, as long as you kept to expressing what your rights were, what rights are lacking, and what you'd like to change (and there were actually lots of posters in cities for International Women’s Day (March 8), can't see any sign of anyone being annoyed about that or complaining...).
The problem would be if you wished to denigrate the rights of another group to exist, or to express themselves calmly, peacefully, and without harming anybody..and that is the line that many anti-trans statements cross.

Edited

"The problem would be if you wished to denigrate the rights of another group to exist, or to express themselves calmly, peacefully, and without harming anybody..and that is the line that many anti-trans statements cross."

Ha ha! - stoppit!

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Yesterday 16:16

Existential angst writ large. Very large.

TWETMIRF · Yesterday 16:23

Does a transwoman cease to exist as soon as he enters the gents? Did he exist when he used male spaces prior to deciding he was a woman?

BillieWiper · Yesterday 16:26

It's the whole thing of 'trying' though isn't it? They're trying to be the opposite sex but they're not. So could 'just trying' be swapped for 'just pretending'?

I mean they exist all right but if you have a dick you're not female and never will be.

WorstPaceScenario · Yesterday 16:27

God the constant need for attention is so tiresome.

It's not 'just trying to exist' when you plaster yourself on a billboard whilst whining that people won't give you an access all areas pass to anywhere you want to go, without question or boundary, in a way that literally no one else can (or wants to, because they don't exist in a permanent state of victimhood)

SmellycatSmelllycat · Yesterday 16:27

I somehow stumbled onto a trans desisters forum the other day and found it interesting reading their opinion on how they had escaped a cult and how much hassle, aggression and online abuse they faced from the trans community.

It was on Reddit and there was a big list of rules that had to be constantly adapted from what I could see in order to stop trans people infiltrating and sharing the posts to criticise or trying to lure them back into the cult.

There was also a pinned post saying that they could no longer share images of their progress transitioning back which had been posted as a confidence boost for people who were wanting reassurance about their appearance after taking hormones and having surgery.

The photos were posted as a timeline in reverse back to their birth sex but trans people had been using it the opposite way round for affirmation and positive comments to say they “passed”.

The photos were just full of comments that were described as a “hug box” mentality and making it all about them as usual.

They try to take over every space and shout everyone down then claim they are just “trying to exist” and claim they are oppressed.

Anyone who truly sees a minority group riding roughshod over everyone’s rights as struggling to exist need to step back and take a proper look.
It doesn’t even make sense when they use the phrase “trans people exist” obviously they do! What they are really requesting is that they want to be seen as to exist as the opposite sex then claim it’s discrimination when women aren’t happy to affirm this in order to give up our single sex spaces.