Singer Ethel Cain exposes genitals on Instagram

[testmatchspecial]

According to a post I saw on X the picture was only censored at least 12 hours after being posted. Now if you haven’t heard of EC, I’ll give you 3 guesses as to whether they’re a woman or a man.

just goes to prove that even men with the teeney tiniest of pensies can still be massive dickheads & are never ever women.

I think those who are hard lined and believe they shouldn’t exist.

I have never, ever, ever in life seen or heard anyone who thinks trans people shouldn't 'ExiSt'. They exist! As male or female human beings. I think you might be confusing thinking we shouldn't indulge mental illness, with thinking the human being themselves shouldn't exist.

If I were you I'd never agree to call your friend's son a daughter or refer to him as she/her. I'd explain to the mum why. And if I lost a friend, then she was a shithouse friend in the first place and never deserved my friendship.

I'd rather not enable a mental illness and lose a friend, than enable it and lose my sense of self respect. Neither God/Goddess or Satan themself could and would and will ever make me refer to a male as she/her. Ever. I am more than prepared to lose friendships over it.

Has anyone ever on these boards said they 'don't want transpeople to exist?' 🤔

There seems to be lots of people willing to believe the fallacy that people with transgender identities have ‘always existed’.

This fallacy has taken the oppression of women and sex stereotype non conforming men in homophobic cultures and leveraged it to support a point that is not supported by history.

Were there people who felt gender dysphoria? Sure. I experienced it, many have.

Were there women who said they were men to get opportunities denied to them? Absolutely there was and they have been retconned as being transgender when there is no fucking evidence that they were, but they are conveniently categorised without their consent being able to be sought.

Were there men who were treated as if they were not men in sexist and homophobic cultures if they didn’t conform to the sex stereotypes of that culture? Yes. And these men have been constantly portrayed as ‘women’ when the reality is they probably didn’t have much choice and they weren’t women. They often took on ceremonial roles that were also not available to women as well.

or maybe it is a reference to spirituality. I don’t know.

The repetition of these soundbites such as ‘trans people have always existed’ come across as very superficially considered but those soundbites do seem to be convincing to some people.

According to TRAs, saying transwomen are men is denying their existence and thats the reason why they say TERFs don't want trans people to exist.

Other people hear TRAs saying TERFs don't want trans people to exist and believe that means they want them dead.

Well on Saturday, I had ‘stop murdering children’, ‘stop killing me’ yelled at me on replay yet I have never wished any of that on someone, so the empty accusation of ‘people who don’t want trans people to exist’ is just as empty of thought, meaningless in context and seems to be a blockage to understanding perspective.

And that blockage to understanding perspective is the key.

Once you allocate someone’s opinion to the ‘you don’t want them to exist’ you can ignore people’s posts and their informed perspective because you have believed that they are just extreme and hateful.

I agree with this - I think the way forward is for society to accept that transwomen are men who want to look feminine rather than men who are women. I guess the issue is, is Ethel trying to promote this narrative or trying to make it acceptable for femine figures to have male genetalia. Unfortunately I think it might be the later

“Other people hear TRAs saying TERFs don't want trans people to exist and believe that means they want them dead.”

Yes, if someone can be categorised as ‘hard line’ and ‘extreme’ you can dismiss anything they say as hateful and uninformed and ‘denying that trans people’ exist. While remaining in your comfortable position of being kind and believing people are what they say they are up to a point that you have deemed comfortable.

Were there men who were treated as if they were not men in sexist and homophobic cultures if they didn’t conform to the sex stereotypes of that culture?

And don’t many in these cultures end up in sex work? Which isn’t typically a great life. I think there’s real rose-tinted glasses on when looking at these groups. Even now many trans people in the West end up doing sex work.

Could be so, OP. I have read some of these men were treated as prostitutes in their culture.

Calling them women would remove the homosexual stigma.

Either way, we do see that claim regularly and never once has anyone posted a link to a culture where those men were not oppressed due to their sex stereotype non-conformity. The claim being made of those cultural aspects is actually fucking offensive when you realise there is no way for those historic groups to have given permission to be used this way.

But people who believe they are kind and tolerant repeat the sound bite to shame those they believe are extreme and don’t ever look at what they, themselves , are doing in repeating misinformation.

She wouldn’t need to be bought a vagina.

I don't really care what motivates men to expose their genitals, tbh.

Other people shouldn't be forced to participate in their game.

Sorry to be pedantic, but they bought their son a £10,000 surgery. He had a cavity created. It's not and never will be a vagina.

Your point is absolutely correct and already raised and answered. I was in a rush but no excuse. x

🤓

You know in a face to face situation, I would generally avoid pronouns.

In this space, anonymous chat board, I state the accurate and biological truth. Because truth and material reality are important, in my view, to establish a basis on which to discuss issues.

You seem to take care to use the preferred pronouns even when it is having no impact on this man or his family. I'm curious the reason for that?

There is a museum that now says that Victorian boys were 'gender fluid', because they wore dresses.

Not understanding that dresses were not female coded for boys.

As someone said, the Internet makes people reinvent the bloody wheel, over and over.

Just a point on how fucking misogynistic the outcome of the following point is

"Were there women who said they were men to get opportunities denied to them? Absolutely there was and they have been retconned as being transgender when there is no fucking evidence that they were, but they are conveniently categorised without their consent being able to be sought."

Women such as James Barry have now been written out of female history in museums and on line and she is now described as a man who was assigned as a female at birth.

What the actual fuck! Why are we allowing this to continue with the breezy 'there were always people who were transgender'! If someone makes the claim there were always transgender people, then ask them who? Where is the evidence that this is not a modern phenomenon that has politically claimed people's histories to support a theory.

Women achieving great things when all they could do to achieve that is to claim to be a man as they would never have been accepted as a woman is being rewritten by people who have politically rewritten their histories. And I think anyone who allows such general blanket and unevidenced statements as 'there were always people who were transgender' to go unchallenged need to understand what is happening and why.

It feels like the right thing to do to me. I realise others disagree and that’s fine, it’s complex. Do I think Ethel Cain is brave? No. Do I think Ethel is male sex - yes (as confirmed by the photos). Do I think me saying he him will make a difference and change the world? No.

'stop murdering children’, ‘stop killing me’

That's it. That's the sound of the bottom of the barrel being well and truly scraped.

When your hyperbole reaches murder, there's nowhere else to go.

I saw that.

Richards tried this on social media recently too. Posted a pic of his grandfather (or great grandfather) as a toddler in Victorian dress for the time and said something fucking absurd about gender and dresses.

How fucking offensive! This rewriting of history to suit this group's purely ideological belief has to stop.

It’ll be a bloke then.

Loads of boys get christened in gowns. Even today in certain circles.

Again it's not female coded clothing.

Yes. It is your choice and you don't see the reason it harms female people collectively which will feed down to individual harm.

Will it make a difference and change the world? Actually, it might very well change the 'world' for the better for a teenager who is listening to you speak. It may allow them to feel they have permission to use accurate and precise language instead of inaccurate language demanded by someone who has been led to believe that their subjective reality which is not materially real must be maintained by those around them acting as if that subjective reality is real.

I don't need to feel I can change the world. But if I can give my own teen the feeling that they can say 'no' to those language demands if they want it, I think I have done my job. If I can explain to my family how James Barry has just been non-consensually used for political gain when she is an exceptional woman, I think that I have done something worthwhile to stop the creep of rewriting history with falsity.

It may seem to be very little by way of achievement, but truth and accuracy means a lot in my family.

I have my husband's baby clothes and it has a lovely dress his mother made for him in the 70s. It was not even a Christening gown.

There is a huge fucking danger in rewriting history and it is not that fucking distant.

It's also pretty stupid to do it, while people remember it quite clearly.