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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Singer Ethel Cain exposes genitals on Instagram

214 replies

testmatchspecial · 12/04/2026 15:47

According to a post I saw on X the picture was only censored at least 12 hours after being posted. Now if you haven’t heard of EC, I’ll give you 3 guesses as to whether they’re a woman or a man.

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allthingsinmoderation · 12/04/2026 20:48

theilltemperedamateur · 12/04/2026 16:59

https://www.out.com/celebs/ethel-cain-nude

GrinGrinGrin

The photos are not overtly sexual, instead they lean into femininity, with a floral bedspread and draped curtains in the background.

And a penis and testicles in the foreground, someone forgot to add.....

Nothing feminine about a dick pic....

Gettingbysomehow · 12/04/2026 20:51

Looks like a man. Behaves like a man.

HoppityBun · 12/04/2026 20:54

testmatchspecial · 12/04/2026 15:47

According to a post I saw on X the picture was only censored at least 12 hours after being posted. Now if you haven’t heard of EC, I’ll give you 3 guesses as to whether they’re a woman or a man.

I have not heard of EC and I need only 1 guess. I do hope there was appropriate appreciation

MissGendering · 12/04/2026 20:56

This is an open and bald exhibitionist fetish. As we all know, paraphilias cluster. Most include non consensual acts.

Its almost impressive that a man broadcasting his penis to the world at large has been branded so effectively that girls and women are convinced its brave and stunning, rather than a tediously grubby wank for the man doing it.

Except men have pulled off these tricks for so long it's actually boring. A man getting himself off at the expense of others is about as groundbreaking as cold mashed potato.

HoppityBun · 12/04/2026 20:59

SabrinaThwaite · 12/04/2026 20:03

Those filters are doing some heavy lifting.

This is Hayden ‘Ethel’ Caine from a couple of years ago.

For those of us who followed 70s rock bands, there’s no doubt that picture is of a man.

2021x · 12/04/2026 21:08

cariadlet · 12/04/2026 16:03

Never heard of EC but flashing genitals seems a very male thing to do - it's why when my dd was at secondary school, she thought it was quite normal for boys to send dick pics (to large number of girls, not just their girlfriends) but there was no corresponding trend for girls to send photos of their private parts.

I always wondered if its because they want you to send them picutres, and then when you reject them the behaviour then is used it to intimidate women.

Report this pathetic person to the police for indecent exposure. Its a crime for a reason.

Roomforapony · 12/04/2026 21:18

testmatchspecial · 12/04/2026 17:22

There’s barely enough to measure, to be frank.

👏🏻👏🏻@testmatchspecial I almost choked on my last (very small😉) Malteser bunny🤣🤣🤣

JanesLittleGirl · 12/04/2026 21:49

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that says "I am a woman" as much as being photographed displaying your male genitatia.

Maaate · 12/04/2026 22:14

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 18:14

I will call people what they ask to be called, in the same way I want people to call me my nickname rather than my full name. I can be kind and respectful without believing a trans person’s beliefs overrule science.

I don't think that perves flashing their knobs to all and sundry deserve kindness and respect but obviously you do

Singer Ethel Cain exposes genitals on Instagram
TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:16

Maaate · 12/04/2026 22:14

I don't think that perves flashing their knobs to all and sundry deserve kindness and respect but obviously you do

Edited

I’ve looked on insta and it's an age protected page with a sensitive image feature. Not my thing at all but I’m not Mary Whitehouse. Ethel wants to be called she so yes, I’ll give that kindness. I can disagree while being respectful.

Maaate · 12/04/2026 22:23

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:16

I’ve looked on insta and it's an age protected page with a sensitive image feature. Not my thing at all but I’m not Mary Whitehouse. Ethel wants to be called she so yes, I’ll give that kindness. I can disagree while being respectful.

It wasn't initially - it took around 18 hours for the page to be locked down. Until then it was open for all and sundry to see

NoWordForFluffy · 12/04/2026 22:25

I have seagulls on my duvet cover. Where does that leave me?

Stealing people's chips from them at the seaside?

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:25

Maaate · 12/04/2026 22:23

It wasn't initially - it took around 18 hours for the page to be locked down. Until then it was open for all and sundry to see

That’s strange, it was locked down back last year when I was looking after dd went to the concert around October time.

TheKeatingFive · 12/04/2026 22:25

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:16

I’ve looked on insta and it's an age protected page with a sensitive image feature. Not my thing at all but I’m not Mary Whitehouse. Ethel wants to be called she so yes, I’ll give that kindness. I can disagree while being respectful.

Why do you think it's 'kindness' to do this?

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:29

TheKeatingFive · 12/04/2026 22:25

Why do you think it's 'kindness' to do this?

If someone says I want to be called this then it’s kind to respond by doing that. Not sure why that’s hard to grasp.

LikeGolddust · 12/04/2026 22:49

Macon Horner/Ethel Caine is a vile woman hating man - see his bullying of Lana Del Ray
https://x.com/popbase/status/1955948678235218425?s=46&t=omuKeAgAjscgni2jfxrNng

Sarah Ditum wrote a piece on him last year, https://thecritic.co.uk/the-very-curious-case-of-ethel-cain/

He is a debased, clearly very unwell man with extreme fetishes.

Singer Ethel Cain exposes genitals on Instagram
Sensitive content
Singer Ethel Cain exposes genitals on Instagram
BonfireLady · 12/04/2026 22:50

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 20:40

I think the two trans people I know are from the autistic side plus trauma in childhood. One is dd1’s friend who is female to male trans. Transitioned during covid after her mum died from falling down the stairs drunk. She was an alcoholic and the dad seems great but clearly very traumatic for the child who was 13. The other is my friend’s son (now daughter) who is autistic and was always awkward and uncomfortable but has felt much happier since changing gender (has no penis anymore). Neither of these people are trying to hurt others, just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin in a complex world. This is why I will always be respectful. If it were my own dc, then there would be conversations about science - and there have been some. Dd1 is gay and was very pro trans at one point due to friends and extreme views. We seem to have provided a balanced view that includes facts and the complexities. She’s seen Ethel Cain live and I’m not bringing this up with her as I don’t want an argument. I imagine she’ll be defensive but I might be wrong.

overall, I think the rhetoric to be anti trans is unhelpful but I do think clear boundaries are needed - avoid writing birthing people as much as possible (we always say women but sometimes birthing people are added on and I hate it).

Edited

Neither of these people are trying to hurt others, just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin in a complex world.

I should imagine this describes the vast majority of autistic adolescents who find themselves believing that they have a gender identity that differs from their sex. Unfortunately the world becomes more complex when adults tell children that not following sex-based stereotypes could indicate that they are in the wrong body.

One is dd1’s friend who is female to male trans. Transitioned during covid after her mum died from falling down the stairs drunk. She was an alcoholic and the dad seems great but clearly very traumatic for the child who was 13.

Losing a mum at a young age is such an awful situation. Hopefully this transition hasn't (yet) involved any permanent changes e.g. hormones or surgery. Autism-related puberty distress and response to trauma (e.g. trying to become someone new, who is perhaps perceived to be a stronger person) would be two obvious areas to explore.

The other is my friend’s son (now daughter) who is autistic and was always awkward and uncomfortable but has felt much happier since changing gender (has no penis anymore).

If your friends child is now happy, that' a good thing. But how could anyone know that your friend's child (who is presumably 18 or older to have had surgery) will continue to feel happy at having made the decision to permanently remove a body part? Incidentally is that what you mean by "changing gender"? i.e someone who modifies their genitals to look like those of the opposite sex has changed gender but someone who hasn't done this (such as Jordan Gray) has not?

overall, I think the rhetoric to be anti trans is unhelpful but I do think clear boundaries are needed - avoid writing birthing people as much as possible (we always say women but sometimes birthing people are added on and I hate it).

What do you mean by "anti-trans"? There are people who think it's anti-trans to say that it's women who give birth. Words like anti-trans and transphobia are incredibly subjective.

FranticFrankie · 12/04/2026 22:51

Put it away Ethel, it's not big (allegedly) and it's not clever

Now I have the earworm from Monty Python's Penis Song as well ...

TwistedWonder · 12/04/2026 22:52

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 22:29

If someone says I want to be called this then it’s kind to respond by doing that. Not sure why that’s hard to grasp.

Being asked to lie about reality and adhere to terminology that breaks down women’s boundaries isn’t kind or respectful imo. It’s accepting to compelled speech

Its women being guilt tripped to #bekind that’s got us in this mess where a bloke gets his dick out and we’re expected to ignore what’s in front of our eyes otherwise we’re on par with Hitler

Myalternate · 12/04/2026 22:54

It’s no wonder that children are confused.

😵‍💫

Helleofabore · 12/04/2026 22:56

The issue is that it causes collective harm to female people and children to use female language for a male person. As mentioned, this is nothing like using a requested nick name.

There are numerous ways it harms female people collectively, from being leveraged to convince organisations to change policy in ways that harm to causing confusion around reactions to information that would normally raise alarms to lowering the boundaries for consent.

There is pressure for some people to continue previously given consent if a person has had female language used when it was a male person all along being discussed. For instance, can I bring my friend x, she would love to come.

Safeguarding failures are missed because children have been told to use this kind language. For instance, she came into the toilet again today while I was there. Seems perfectly normal interaction compared to : He came into the toilet again today.

Or a young child trying to explain why they are uncomfortable with a ‘woman’s presence’.

We know of instances where male people have convinced organisations to change policy based on the fact that people use female language as requested. During a presentation to a sports federation, McKinnon / Ivy convinced the panel that it was cruel to exclude him and other male athletes because it would be the only time they were rejected as female because people used female pronouns meaning they treated them as female people. This is recorded in at least one interview.

Dr Upton said the same thing I believe to justify using a NHS communal changing room. There are others. Fred Wallace is another and I can think of others too.

I have recently had a friend in another country where it is not acceptable to reject a male HCP if they say they are female, had to cope with CPTSD being intimately treated even though she requested a female HCP specifically.

There are other harms that stem from using female language. It is not kind or respectful.

Helleofabore · 12/04/2026 22:59

overall, I think the rhetoric to be anti trans is unhelpful but I do think clear boundaries are needed - avoid writing birthing people as much as possible (we always say women but sometimes birthing people are added on and I hate it).

If birthing people can be avoided, so to can any female language for a male person. Particularly since if you are speaking in front of them, their name can be used instead.

JohnThomasOnAFloralBedspread · 12/04/2026 23:00

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 12/04/2026 17:24

JohnThomasOnAFloralBedspread would be a brilliant name.

Just saying

Ta-dah!

I don’t think I could really add anything else to this thread as it’s gone a bit insane.

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 23:01

BonfireLady · 12/04/2026 22:50

Neither of these people are trying to hurt others, just trying to feel comfortable in their own skin in a complex world.

I should imagine this describes the vast majority of autistic adolescents who find themselves believing that they have a gender identity that differs from their sex. Unfortunately the world becomes more complex when adults tell children that not following sex-based stereotypes could indicate that they are in the wrong body.

One is dd1’s friend who is female to male trans. Transitioned during covid after her mum died from falling down the stairs drunk. She was an alcoholic and the dad seems great but clearly very traumatic for the child who was 13.

Losing a mum at a young age is such an awful situation. Hopefully this transition hasn't (yet) involved any permanent changes e.g. hormones or surgery. Autism-related puberty distress and response to trauma (e.g. trying to become someone new, who is perhaps perceived to be a stronger person) would be two obvious areas to explore.

The other is my friend’s son (now daughter) who is autistic and was always awkward and uncomfortable but has felt much happier since changing gender (has no penis anymore).

If your friends child is now happy, that' a good thing. But how could anyone know that your friend's child (who is presumably 18 or older to have had surgery) will continue to feel happy at having made the decision to permanently remove a body part? Incidentally is that what you mean by "changing gender"? i.e someone who modifies their genitals to look like those of the opposite sex has changed gender but someone who hasn't done this (such as Jordan Gray) has not?

overall, I think the rhetoric to be anti trans is unhelpful but I do think clear boundaries are needed - avoid writing birthing people as much as possible (we always say women but sometimes birthing people are added on and I hate it).

What do you mean by "anti-trans"? There are people who think it's anti-trans to say that it's women who give birth. Words like anti-trans and transphobia are incredibly subjective.

By anti trans, I think those who are hard lined and believe they shouldn’t exist. I believe they’ve always existed but the language has changed in how it’s described (I also believe there’s extreme trans views but I’m focusing on those not wanting to hurt others).

friend’s daughter is mid 20s and was 18 when she “confessed” how she felt. While her parents were initially surprised it actually made a lot of sense in hindsight. It wasn’t a fad for her. Who knows if she’s still going to be happy.

Trauma friend of dd - interestingly has begun wearing more feminine outfits - still trousers and short hair but feminine jewellery. I wonder if they’re trapped as this persona and might change and reinvent themselves at uni.

As I’ve said, I would have been steering dd if she’d gone down this route. At one point about 8 girls in her class were trans boys in year 9 and all changing their names daily (it got very confusing when each friend went through 6 names) but we chatted to dd that all parents name their dc with love and thought so changing your name if you’re unhappy is okay but you do need to consider the feelings of those who named you. That did seem to impact her - mind you she never liked a nickname and insisted on her full name being used throughout younger years so that would have been a 180. Watching a parent at primary “transition” their year 4 dc didn’t sit comfortably with me, but I’ve not been in their house and not lived it so, as I said previously, I will refer to the dc as him if it ever comes up. Most that I know in rl are female to male.

TeenLifeMum · 12/04/2026 23:03

Helleofabore · 12/04/2026 22:59

overall, I think the rhetoric to be anti trans is unhelpful but I do think clear boundaries are needed - avoid writing birthing people as much as possible (we always say women but sometimes birthing people are added on and I hate it).

If birthing people can be avoided, so to can any female language for a male person. Particularly since if you are speaking in front of them, their name can be used instead.

Sometimes I have to write it - working in the NHS. But yes, calling people their name rather than a pronoun to their face is clearly more polite, but I would use their chosen name not their official name.

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