Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

[Secretsquirrelshh]

Inspired by threads on here re: mixed sex fitting rooms, I need to find somewhere for DD13 (very shy, incredibly embarrassed by EVERYTHING) to have her first ever bra fitting.

M&S is obviously right out, and we don't have a lovely independent shop anywhere near us.

I see John Lewis no longer enforce single-sex changing spaces.

Does anyone have any recommendations of nationwide stores that do truly single-sex bra fittings?

The point was not made about the woman who suffered a heinous crime. The point was made to illustrate the ludicrousness of the op's stress about an M&S changing room. There are far more.things mothers need to worry about than whether a bra fitter is potentially trans, in which case one simply walks away if uncomfortable.

Of course it is political - you are making a point about the need to stop trans people working in women only spaces - it is a perfectly valid point of view, but you do not want to use your child to make this point.

I find it quite unimaginable that a 13 year old girl would be actively asking to have a bra fitting. She is just at a very vulnerable age of developing sexuality and most would just want to get the bra in the least embarrassing way possible.

As others have suggested - measure her, buy a few bras, try them on in the privacy of her home and send back the ones that do not fit. Job done, no embarrassment, sensitively handled.

As I said upthread I have 3 DDs and my main aim in helping them make this transition was to be sensitive to their feelings and make it as easy as possible for them. They also had lots of friends and getting the first bra was a hot topic - they supported each other.

Why not offer her the possibility of getting a few bras to try on at home? This would be a kindness.

Your political point about women-only spaces can wait - your child's emotional needs come first.

This isn't the vehicle for trying to instill skills in DD that even when something is a bit embarrassing or awkward, you can still do it. There will be plenty of other opportunities for her to get a grip on this concept - but this is not it. Her burgeoning sexuality is a matter for sensitive handling and not an opportunity to teach her to face embarrassment.

Above all you need to show kindness to your child.

This.

And, as a surprise to no one, the only people who rave about genital inspections are the very men who are clamouring to get into women's spaces who like to imagine it happening.

I haven't mentioned transwomen as an issue. This is a practical concern, and I agree that the chances of a transwoman fitter or customer being there at the exact time we are are teeny-tiny and the risk is negligible for this one situation (obviously there are wider societal implications but I am focusing on the domestic, not the political here).

But for posters to imply it's hysterical to want to have privacy and dignity completely away from men for a teenage girl is frankly astonishing. I have been to bra fittings before, and the idea of DD being comfortable talking about fit, where it digs in / how to adjust straps / an assistant talking about her growing body is something that absolutely requires handling sensitively, and of course she'd be embarrassed if she could hear male voices outside the cubicle.

Why do you think she shouldn't be afforded privacy and dignity as absolute standard (with unisex changing rooms potentially supplied for anyone who wants to - doubtless with shorter queues)?

What does your dd think?

FFS women and girls shouldn't have to tie themselves in knots because they want an actual woman to do a bra fitting. If men want to be pretendy women, fine, do it at home or on the streets (but not women's toilets)and stay out of our spaces.

That's right. Women need to exclude themselves from their own spaces, because men want to be in there.

But for posters to imply it's hysterical to want to have privacy and dignity completely away from men for a teenage girl is frankly astonishing.

it's bloody depressing. The amount of things people are suggesting women and girls do in order to accept the loss of all their spaces is extraordinary.

I've never seen a man in the changing rooms by the lingerie in my local M&S.

Measure your dd, order a selection of bras. Gauge what's the right shape, return and order different sizes is if necessary. It can all be done in the comfort and privacy of home.

I do get where you're coming from, OP, but weigh up the potential harms here.

If you really want a professional bra fitting for your daughter now, then clearly you perceived that there will be some harm if she doesn't get one.

There will obviously be harm in her being fitted in a place where men are present (or even doing the fitting).

But what are the actual chances of this scenario occurring? I'm as bothered by men pretending to be women as the next person, but it's a bit like being bothered by people who want to abduct kids. They don't lurk round every corner, and the chances of coming across the harm is extremely small indeed.

I took my teenage daughter for a fitting here and it was fine. She's not large. I've had a fitting recently too and I'm also not large (as in large breasts).

Once more for the hard-of-thinking at the back, NOT at all concerned (realistically) about ANY trans issue for this situation. I don't want men in the vicinity - e.g. other customers / other staff. Most changing rooms seem to be mixed-sex.

And for others too lazy or dim to understand the earlier posts - some clarification:

1. DD has asked for a bra fitting (I asked her if she'd like to and she said yes, over the summer holidays)
2. I haven't of course mentioned the issue about mixed-sex changing rooms to her because she wouldn't even be aware it's a possibility at this stage and I don't want to give her other things to worry about
3. I am in no way using her to make a political point. I just want her to have somewhere single-sex to have a bra fitting.

What if she wants to do it in the comfort and privacy of the shop. Why can't she?

why does she have to traipse back backwards and forwards to the shop returning, replacing, returning, trying on.

That's what the bloody shop is for

And once again...

It's not a trans issue, it's an "away from men" issue.

You exploited that woman's horrific rape to make a point about transwomen. Because it was "round the corner" from your M&S.

I'm shocked that you thought that was an acceptable thing to do.

Yes . Isn't there some statitistic that something like 90% are wearing the wrong size?

We know that @Secretsquirrelshh

I am sorry that people are deliberately misunderstanding you, and attacking you.

They cannot - more likely, will not - understand or accept the damage done to women and girls by men. It seems to be an argument that unless your daughter is actually physically/sexually assaulted then it doesn't matter. There is no clearer proof that they have no idea what it is like to be female. And if some of the people posting this argument are female, I have to ask why they are centring men here. Perhaps they could make the effort to try to understand how other women and girls might think and feel, acknowledge that they can't give permission on behalf of others, and accept that it is valid for women and girls to need and want single-sex spaces for whatever reasons.

DD has asked for a bra fitting (I asked her if she'd like to and she said yes, over the summer holidays)

That is a leading question - it did not even arise for my DDs and all their friends. It is like saying "Would you like to go and show your developing breasts to a stranger?" - and at such a sensitive stage in her life. She is being led by you.

Go and get her some bras and do this in a gentle way. You clearly feel you have a point to make to her about overcoming embarrassment but you should find some other way of doing this. THis is not the issue to use. It is simply too sensitive.

And your worry about having a trans male doing the fitting isd frankly OTT.

And for others too lazy or dim to understand the earlier posts ..... this shows very much your forceful nature and the inability to listen to other views and hold a debate. Maybe your DD has other views too that need to be listened to?

I agree and, I'd have no hesitation in using the shop but the op does.

I'm 65. I have bought bras from, and tried them on or been fitted in M&S, John Lewis, various other department stores. JL has curtains/M&S doors. I also have a dd, now aged nearly 28 who has also bought bras.

I have never, in more than 45 years of bra buying encountered a man inside the lingerie changing rooms. I'm not sure how much it.would bother me if I did and if it did, I'd go for coffee and come back later.

Presumably @Secretsquirrelshh you have never sunbathed topless. To be fair I wouldn't on a public beach nowadays but that's on me.

Why should women have to exit a space and come back later, which they might not have time for because there is a man in a woman's space.

It’s rare and obviously despicable.

In practice, reputable retailers like M&S and JL do a good job of keeping bra changing areas mainly male-free and safe. I would assume that their staff know about secret filming and make checks. We can all ask for 100% guarantees of no men but that would come at an extra cost (more staff). The OP has already said she doesn’t want to go to an independent retailer because she is worried it will be too expensive. I really do think that M&S and JL do a good job of keeping everything safe and worry free. There are seldom 100% guarantees against risks in life.

They don't have to, they can if they want to. In any event I've never seen a man in the lingerie changing rooms.

Seriously? You think because it's never happened to you it's not an issue?

good Lord

Oh come off it. She was talking about crop tops and how some of her friends had bras, and I asked her if she'd like to get one and she said maybe. I asked her if she'd like to go for a bra fitting and she said yes over the summer holidays. This is normal parenting.

Also, for the hard of thinking (this means you, in case that wasn't clear), please show me where I have said I'm worried about a trans bra fitter.

A couple of years ago there was a long thread on here full of reviews from John Lewis and Marks & Spencer's.

An extraordinary number of them from men who try on women's clothes. And a horribly significant number from men who spunk up on them and then put them back on the rail.