Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

[Secretsquirrelshh]

Inspired by threads on here re: mixed sex fitting rooms, I need to find somewhere for DD13 (very shy, incredibly embarrassed by EVERYTHING) to have her first ever bra fitting.

M&S is obviously right out, and we don't have a lovely independent shop anywhere near us.

I see John Lewis no longer enforce single-sex changing spaces.

Does anyone have any recommendations of nationwide stores that do truly single-sex bra fittings?

That's literally all I want. A changing room marked for women's use only. I'm not bothered (in this exact scenario) about transwomen - although I appreciate it's a wider concern.

I just want DD to feel confident that Arthur from school or Gary from down the road isn't going to be in the next cubicle.

It’s the bra companies who say this. Why, d’you think?! Why must a woman wear a band that is uncomfortably tight because of their mad ideas and desire for increased sales. Women choose to wear what is comfortable and in their price bracket.

Even young women who presumably have more exciting sex lives and are interested in how the lingerie looks are now opting in huge numbers for sports type bras and unwired - the covid days mean less tolerance for discomfort. That has driven the increasing availability of softer moulded shapes thank god.

I’m shocked by the number of posters on here who take the view that if you or your 13 year old don’t want to strip for the delectation of men with fetishes that you are just big wet Nellies who should know better and who they will reprimand. And they do this after a TiM on this thread boasts about using M&S women’s changing rooms. This is the same man who has publicly threatened women he disagrees with with corrective rape with a splintery bat. How on earth can you say this isn’t happening when it is happening right in front of you on this thread?

Single sex spaces so women and girls can have a bit of privacy and dignity.

The wilful good girling, sacrificially offering up other women (normally much less privileged ones) and even young girls, is nauseating. And somewhat sadistic. Way too much interest and glee in seeing another female hurt or distressed by a male, I suspect a psychologist would have explanations for it.

We're talking about womens changing rooms, not whole shops. Do keep up.

And -!&^ off with the genital inspections comment, only you TRAs are obsessed with this.

It doesn’t have to be uncomfortably tight but if you measure by M&S, they put me in a 40HH. I could pull the back band out 6 inches and my boobs were falling out everywhere
I’m a 34L, and it’s comfortable enough to sleep in at a size 18 and I’m supported
not so much of an issue at an A/B cup but when you start getting into bigger cup sizes you need the band support

"Common" in the context of "common sense" and "common knowledge" means "something that most people have". When 70% of women are in the wrong size of bra, then correctly fitting a bra is clearly not a matter of common sense.

Here is a list of things that aren't intuitively obvious and that a decent fitter will have been trained in:

• The bra should fit when fastened on its loosest hooks when you first buy it. The hooks are to take up slack as the band's elastic wears out.
• The wires should lie flat on the ribcage. They should not be on the breast tissue and there should not be a gap between the wires and the sternum.
• If one breast is larger than the other, fit to the larger breast, using a chicken fillet on the smaller one if needed.
• If you are slackening the shoulder straps to prevent spilling, you need a bigger cup size.
• If the band curves up at the back, you need a smaller band size.
• To put the bra on, bend forwards at the waist first and then lift and scoop your breasts upwards after you've fastened the hooks.
• The "size" is only applicable to that style. You may take a different "size" in different styles, even from the same manufacturer.
• Your breasts won't fit properly into every style available. I cannot wear balconettes, they just either spill or are gappy at the top.

And a point that even some fitters (Bravissimo, I am looking at you) get wrong:

• If the wire is in your armpits and your breasts are pointing out slightly sideways instead of straight forwards, try a bigger band size. Bravissimo fitters insist on putting me in bands so tight that the wires get pulled back into my armpits.

Exactly this. I want her to have the experience of a professional showing her how it should fit - so she can learn kinesthetically about what it means to have a well-fitting bra. It's easy to say "bend forwards, then scoop the breasts" - and having done it hundreds of times, I know exactly what you mean. But for a first time, someone actually showing her will be much more memorable so she knows how to do it in future.

And in some ways, I think a professional is less cringy than mum trying to show you how to do it.

I was fitting my DD12 in M&S a few months ago and a man strode into the fitting rooms to speak to a woman who I'm assuming was his wife.

"All but nonexistent" my arse 😑

OP: the quoted poster thinks that threatening women who disagree with him with sexual assault with splintery rolling pins is an acceptable way to behave. I would disregard his life advice on that basis, and on the basis that he is misinformed as to the law.

The "genital inspections" trantrumming is unjustified hyperbole, a deliberate misrepresentation of both reality and the feminist position, as women don't need to look at a man's dick to know he's a man and no feminist is advocating for that. Women generally don't want to look at men's dicks!)

The assertion that "shops aren't single-sex" is a deliberate mis-scoping of the single-sex nature of a fitting room, or any other space, that is signed for women. The whole shop isn't single-sex and no one claimed it was, but the bra fitting rooms might be. The Supreme Court ruled that a single-sex space means single biological sex, and if a space is advertised as being for women, that means it is single-sex.

Forgot the receipt.

Why are you telling me. I literally added a link to a video so she could see these things. Her daughter doesn’t even have any breasts to measure. She has said she is probably an A cup!!!

I have been “ trained” to do bra fittings. It was literally the other manager showing me once. As I said it’s not difficult. Especially in these days with Google and YouTube. There is no experience to have. It’s a bra.

Oh I know, I have seen this!

As for the frequent TRA suggestion that we would need a "genital inspection" to distinguish men from women, I can only assume that either it is a fetish for them to imagine such a thing, or that actually they can't tell the difference between men and women by looking at them and talking to them, like the rest of us can.

Oh I agree the usual Ann Summers tone would be off, but I thought if there was a local rep then she might be up for a different style of party if she got some advance warning. It's still commission in the end!

Oh, just had another thought - does the personal stylist service at John Lewis cover bras? The ones I've used (London, Oxford) were in a seperate private changing room away from the rest of the store.

Believe me, no woman wants to see your genitals. Hence… single sex spaces.

"Genital inspections" is a tedious lie. We all know it. These people are being dishonest because they don't have an argument and can't engage. Hence the constant threats of violence.

I'm not demanding any such inspection and in many years of reading GC chat on MN, literally no-one is.

I think it's fascinating how many people have assumed I'm terrified of transwomen in the vicinity.

I just want a clearly-signposted "Women's" changing room - marked thusly. The chances of a transwoman being there are tiny. It is far, far more likely in a unisex changing room in a small town that her male maths teacher (or any other man) might be in the cubicle next door. I would like to eliminate that risk.

I was so surprised when we went to Primark on Oxford Street a couple of months ago, that their changing rooms were unisex. I even asked for women's changing rooms and were told there weren't any.

I knew all your points on fit which are just common sense and known to anyone who has worn a bra for a couple of years.

I don’t believe the statistic. What makes a bra ‘the wrong’ size?

However - not the point of the thread.

I agree that now these changing rooms are mixed sex, anyone can use them. Unfortunately, it's because of trans ideology that we're in this situation.

Retailers think it's easier to just abandon single sex spaces altogether, rather than enforce them.

And it's interesting that the Supreme Court judgement recognised this. They recognised that abandoning single sex spaces could, and does, adversely affect women.

Specifically, in this case, you and your daughter.

How else is a growing girl meant to get a bra that fits, other than through a fitting? It's absolutely appropriate for the parent to suggest it.

It never occurred to me as a primary child to ask for a bra fitting. By the time my parents realised that perhaps they should take me for one, I was already B cup.

It will also affect their bottom line. Instead of taking up 15 minutes of a shop assistant's time (estimated maximum cost £10 in labour and reshelving), people will be ordering multiple items to their home (delivery cost: £5 ish, bourne by the retailer), and then the cost of return (another £5) restocking (estimated cost £10) plus damaged / soiled items that can't be resold (estimated cost averaged at £2 per order).

Changing a door sign to read "Women's" - a one-off cost of about £50.

I didn't know those points for a very long time. A combination of not getting proper fittings and the small band + big cup sizes simply not existing at M&S during the 90s meant that I had the wires on breast tissue and the straps slackened and the back too big because the alternative was no bra at all. I was wearing a 34C and I reckon I should have been in a 32DD or E.

My first fitter, aged 10, openly stated that I was a 32 band but she was going to put me in a 34 because they didn't have 32 anything and I'd "grow into it soon enough". I'm sitting here in a 32F over thirty years later. Women my age will have endured that kind of misfitting without the fitter stating openly that the sizing is wrong and will not have any idea that they were bullshitted. They will think that discomfort or even pain, slipping straps, and spilling are all normal experiences. Judging by the number of women I see spilling over the top of the cups or with the back strap pulled up between their shoulderblades, a lot of women don't know what a good fit looks and feels like.

It's only "common" sense if most people have it. Clearly, they don't, so it's not common.

What makes a bra ‘the wrong’ size?

It doesn't fit correctly. Specifically:

• If it hurts or you cannot keep it on all day.
• If the strap rides up at the back.
• If you spill over the tops of the cups.
• If there's a big gap or bagginess in the cup on your large side.
• If the wires dig in, including into your armpits, or are not on the rib cage all the way around.

What's quite interesting is that a mother posts asking for a woman-only changing room with no men present and certain posters immediately start calling her prejudiced against trans people and similar. It's as if these posters know that "transwomen" are actually men, even when they claim TWAW.

What's the saying for when people completely prove a point by arguing against it?