Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

Yes, the risk of assault from men with 6 toes is also tiny compared to the risk from all the other men in the world, let’s have them in the women’s toilets too.

It is certainly not accurate thinking.

It also ignores that for some male people accessing that female single sex provision is about having power over female people. It doesn't have to be sexual at all. It is still about abuse though.

the majority of whom are very vulnerable.

Are they stunning and brave, as well?

Why so much concern for so called vulnerable men?

Why no concern for genuinely vulnerable women?

There are women who have been raped, abused, having to deal with men in their domestic violence shelters, rape counselling sessions. There are women in prison being locked up with men, having to share showers and cells with them. These tend to be poor and marginalised women. That doesn't mean they don't count.

Why haven't you given a single thought to these women's plight? Do you just genuinely believe that men deserve more of your sympathy? 🫠

Nobody can transition to anything.

Do all male people regardless of say age, sexuality, mobility, strength etc pose an equal risk to women.

Or old men, red headed men, men called Dave.

Why make an exception for just this group of men?

Well, the stats say that transwomen are even more likely to be sexual offenders than regular men, so they're not exactly safe, are they? Of course, you're more likely to be assaulted by a non-trans male because there are many more of them about, but you're less likely to be sexually assaulted by another woman than you are a transwoman.

None of that means we should make women even a little bit less safe by allowing trans-identified men into single-sex spaces, does it?

It’s “mumsnet” hun

Elderly men, some autistic men, effeminate gay men for example are quite vulnerable too, are we letting them in?

This is more misinformation from you.

Yes, there was 'issues' with male people accessing female toilets all along.

But the fact is, biological man are men and biological women are women regardless of how they present. There is no biological distinction between men who believe themselves to be women and women who believe themselves to be men. Single sex spaces are based on biological sex. There is no wider discussion needed. How vulnerable people are tended to is a completely separate issue.

How does one tell the difference between a man who wants to cause us harm from one who doesn’t? Because they are dressed in a stereotypical regressive way usually associated with the opposite sex? Really? That’s what you’re basing your risk
assessment on?

How many women can honestly say they have used the men's toilets when there's been a qué for the ladies and had an issue of a sexual nature i'm guessing no one. just saying it's ok for us to use the men's when it suits and I've done this myself but not the other way round.

Just 2 miles from me is a shop where men can try on women’s clothing, wigs and make up and spend time with other men who do the same. It’s called Transformation. Some years ago, one of the women who worked there was attacked by a client who attempted to rape her. He failed as he couldn’t get an erection for long enough. But he was still sent to prison. Prior to the attempted rape he had been convicted of manslaughter.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3161209.stm
This man was, and still is, APG and many men who claim to be women are. That is where a man is sexually aroused by the thought of him being a woman. We used to be more plain speaking and call these men cross dressers / transsexuals. Now we have to call them women apparently.

Queue.

Well yes, because women aren't predators on the whole, are they? 98 percent of sex crimes are committed by men.

well firstly you shouldn’t - I certainly haven’t

secondly I am sure you put your head in the door and made sure you felt safe before you did so. I am sure you would not have done it if there was a group of 10 young lads all standing around the sinks. You would have done an internal risk assessment when you went in.

thirdly, you are no threat to the men if you go in. You would likely make them uncomfortable but no one would perceive you as a threat.

I once got shouted at my the mother of a transgender girl. She overheard my daughter ask if we could find another toilet in the building that wasn’t unisex as she felt uncomfortable. I agreed and this woman just went off on me!! I think women and young girls are entitled to safe spaces. I don’t hate anyone.

They are very definitely not very vulnerable. In terms of serious violence their risk of murder is lower than any other demographic. You are also using the prosecutors fallacy - that because the numbers are low the risk is low which ignores the fact that when we are actually in a room with a man who identifies as a woman our risk of being sexually assaulted by them is much higher than being in a room with another man.

You are also ignoring the violence that is the theft of language and the harms from that - how many women with poor English or biological knowledge understand that a public health campaign for ‘people with a cervix’ includes them? That is before you consider how dehumanising it is to be referred to by body parts.

You also ignore the women living in fear, and those raped by violent men who identify as women in women’s prisons.

You ignore the harm done when data is no longer recorded by sex so the different impacts of eg drugs on each sex are obscured.

You ignore the harm done to women who must self-exclude from spaces because they cannot risk coming into contact with men there, for example in rape crisis centres or hostels for those fleeing domestic abuse

You ignore the risks to girls being taught they are bigots to want boundaries or modesty.

You ignore the female athletes whose careers are destroyed by men stealing their medals and competition places

and I could go on for much more.

So are the following:
Cunt
Ni**er
Moron

Just because they are in there doesn't mean people can use them with impunity.

Why do I have to be triggered and have panic attacks and restrict my life rather than a man feel uncomfortable with using the toilet that aligns with his sex?

Yes but you put yourself in a male space with lots of men In but you don't seem to care about that im just saying. Also not every man is a predator and less transgender women are predators it's this mentality that's causing all the issues.

I’ve never used the men’s. And I certainly never would.

This is not a relevant or symmetrical comparison.

A female person choosing to take a risk to use the male toilets is consenting to that risk for herself. It is actually just as much as an invasion of privacy and dignity to male people though when a female person enters a male single sex provision. It is certainly not respecting those male people when a female does it.

However, if you are trying to then deny that male people in general, meaning male people with a transgender identity are not a much higher risk of causing a female person harm by accessing a female single sex provision (including groups and sports), then I think you have believed misinformation.

It is also not just about physical risk to safety. There are many types of harms that female people need female single sex provisions to be safeguarded against:

Harms include:

-Rape and sexual assault.
-Violence.
-Sexual abuse that is not rape or sexual assault.
-Sexual abuse that also includes solo sexual acts or using the experience in future sexual acts.
-Any other abuse that may include verbal abuse, intimidation in any way etc, this includes inappropriate questions and comments.
-A male person's presence where female people need privacy and dignity.
-A male person's presence where female people need to feel safe from any male person's presence (over the age of about 8 years old).
-Female people self-excluding knowing that there may be a male person accessing that provision.
-Female people not having the freedom to discuss the issues that cause them distress, concern, or that they need to talk about because a male person is present.
-Female children (and female adults) learning to have no or too low personal boundaries because they have been taught that male people are female people and that they should ignore and overcome feelings of discomfort.

Narrowing the discussion to sex and violence offences does not remove these other harms from consideration for female single sex spaces.

However, discussion of why a group of male people should not be treated differently to all other male people is relevant to the discussion as to why no male people at all should be given special access to those female single sex spaces.