Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

I don’t see how using the toilet would be seen as destroying a women’s space, or being deceitful.
and never mind danger from men, I’ve been intimidated and threatened with assault by cis women in bathrooms before. So how about we deal with that.

Simply because it is no longer a women’s space.

It goes much further than that.

These men are now welcomed into women’s DV hostels, rape crisis centres and support groups, breastfeeding groups etc.

The toilet thing is always used as a catch all when it’s only the thin edge of the wedge.

There is no such thing as a “cis woman”. Women are female. “Trans women” are male, so men. There is only one sex of woman, and that is female. Hope that helps.

Wasn't there a transwoman who sexually assaulted a little girl in the supermarket toilets and then managed to con his way into a women's refuge when he was released from prison? And people wonder why we are fighting against this stuff.

If men are present in a space then it becomes mixed sex - they have destroyed the female sex space. As for deceitful - you say we do not notice these hundreds of men invading our space therefore they must be deceiving us ergo being deceitful.

Yes. Two little girls I think.

We all use hypothetical situations in our daily lives, this is not some weird thing I’m asking you to do. Anyway, enough pigeon chess for now.

That was the 6'5" katie dolatowski

Well, there are plenty of "Sallys" out there, i.e. men who have, following arrest for rape, have "transitioned" to being women. For a while their accusers were forced by the courts to use female pronouns for these rapists, before decency prevailed.

Of course you don't want to play mental gymnastics, that would involve thinking this through.

Mumberjack Far easier to focus on a tiny proportion of the population and the utter fear that something may happen

But something - a whole lot of things - has happened!

I know transwomen obsess about toilets - sometimes I wonder if the T in LGBT stands for toilets, as they seem to bring every discussion about women's rights back to 'we want to pee in your toilet'🙄

But if we could just step back and get a bit of perspective:
in a short space of time, the transgender movement has had a massive and totally disproportionate effect on society.

Think about it: a tiny percentage of the population - maybe 250,000 out of a population of nearly 70m - have somehow managed to force changes in the law; education; the media; medicine; religion; the workplace; the arts.

The effects are evident and serious: lesbians are supposed to accept men as sexual partners, otherwise they are transphobes; a nurse is expected to refer to a male as 'she' or she is a transphobe; rape survivors are expected to accept men in rape crisis centres, or they are transphobes.
The media refers to male rapists as women.
The NHS refers to birthing parents and people with a cervix.
Trans identifying men overturn the established convention that 'the good men stay out' of women's toilets, and bully their way in; women who object are transphobes.

This is a huge social change that has taken place, a maximum of effect with a minimum of democratic validity or reasonable justification.

Future sociologists will scratch their heads over how on earth this happened, but
it has already happened, it is happening, and it's not just about where men pee.

Katie Dolatowski.

Because it then becomes a mixed sexed space and therefore not a women’s space. Why is this so difficult to grasp? Why are men with special
feelings more important than women who just want a space for themselves away from the male sex, no matter how lovely they are?

There are also plenty of trans men and trans women who just go about living their lives, working their jobs, spending time with friends. You and the Sally-obsessive have jumped straight to toilets, straight to rape. It is weird.

I knew this would happen after reading the OP's post.

Do you mean I should do a load of mental gymnastics and pretend that the person who assaulted me who is a man who lives as a man is actually a pretend trans person but that you and the Sally-obsessive can't also engage in considering other perspectives?

Your reply isn't the "aha I've got one" that you think it is.

What a load of rubbish. Women not wanting biological men in their spaces is not hate, its not transphobia, its women not wanting to get raped and wanting to feel safe.

You back this up with, "well, women on here always defend bad behaviour from cis men" - do you mind explaining how this in any way, shape or form correlates with women not wanting men in their spaces? So, if a woman defends the behaviour of a man in any given context, then that means their views on transgender women are transphobic? Because if we support the behaviour of one man, we have to support the behaviour of all men? If one man doesnt make us uncomfortable, then no men should? By your logic.

I think I speak for all the sane people here when I say you relating womens heres views on transgenderism to issues surrounding women disagreeing with other women on any given topic is ludicrous and boredline lunacy. Why is it whenever people try to defend trans people they just make a bunch of unrelated points and throw around insults. Not a great way to get taken seriously.

I have met a lot of trans people. Some great, others not. Much like every other person ive met regardless of the gender they identify as. I also studied transgenderism as part of my degree, and know that for those who genuinely are transgender, it is not a choice. Unfortunately, that does nothing in the way of telling us which transgender people in womens spaces are genuine or not. Like it or not, but women being made uncomfortable by men in their spaces isnt hate. If men didnt pose a significant risk to women, it wouldnt be the case - but they do, so it is. Stop blaming and hating women for not wanting to risk getting raped.

Oh and there are PLENTY of transgender people who are right wing. Just look at Blaire White.

Who cares whether they are living their lives quietly or whatever? They’re still men and are not welcome in spaces set up for the privacy, safety and dignity of women and girls.

Safeguarding works by looking at the worst-case scenario, though. Why do you think we have single-sex spaces in the first place? What do you think happened before we had them?

How nice that there are so many women (presumably) who have never had any experiences that would lead them to feel unsafe or uncomfortable when a man enters a female single-sex space. And strange that they cannot empathise with those less fortunate, or use their imaginations to see that problems could arise.

And if they are happy with the ‘just want to pee’ does that extend to being cool with male prisoners in women’s prisons, males attending female-only rape counselling, males taking medals in women’s sport, and on and on? Plus the attempts to erase the word woman (uterus-havers! chest feeding! people who menstruate!) and the gradual skewing of crime statistics because the police will record a violent rape as a woman’s crime?

You and the Sally-obsessive have jumped straight to toilets, straight to rape. It is weird.

How is it weird? Women have been being raped by men since humans came into existence. It is rife around the world to this day and is a serious issue. You as a woman are well aware of that. Women have to be hypervigilant about SA because it is so prevalent in the world.

A man comes into the women's bathroom, do you just stand there and think "ah, thats perfectly normal, he doesnt pose a single threat to me!"

Or is it only not a threat if hes wearing womens clothes and makeup?

There was a time when women suffered the “urinary leash” where they had no facilities to use. Men could, and did, piss in the streets, but a woman would need to wait until she was in a safe private space.

Many of these supposed “delicate flower” men are misogynistic, narcissistic bully boys, and the women who deliberately enable them (as opposed to the hopelessly misguided #bekind crew) are nearly as bad. Mumsnet is a space where that shit doesn’t fly, as a majority female site with an established feminist board.

Tell me why I should be happy with this delightful person in the Ladies loos, @Steph2002.

I think this poster will carry on pretending that the absurd part of that exchange was imagining a man with a stereotypically feminine presentation could possibly be a rapist.

Yes many seem to love their 'boners' which they talk openly about on trans forums they just like having breasts and high heels too. You never see men identifying as women in jeans and trainers do you. They all seem to dress like drag queens. I wonder why?

Why do you think single sex provisions exist? Have a guess.