Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

My post hasn't aged well, has it? 😒
I still think it summed up what the discussion was all about, but somehow it extended over 10 pages.

No evidence of any transphobic hate in the 10 pages, just the usual groundless accusations.

And he usual brazen ignoring of being caught out 100%, provably wrong about e.g. claiming that:
-JKR said that Imane Khelif is trans [she didn't]
-IK's sex was judged solely on appearance [it wasn't, he had already failed eligibility tests before he appeared in the Olympics]
-we have never met Imane Khelif [true]
-therefore we know nothing about his sex [untrue: it has been known for a long time that he has a DSD that is a male DSD, and is therefore a man.]

Anybody who is interested in boxing, as a previous poster said they were, must surely be aware of the whole IBA/IOC/WB situation, and the different approach to eligibility for women's boxing taken by the WB, and adopted by the IOC?
Boxing is a very rules-based sport, the most basic one being strict adherence to eligibility criteria - you can't identify into a weight division, and now you can't identify into women's boxing if you're male like Imane Khelif.

But they've all been men, which transwomen are, or they couldn't be transwomen. And transmen aren't. Men are the issue on that front, however they dress or identify. And a higher proportion of transwomeb are in prison for sexual assault than what you choose to call cis men are. I call them all men. But a higher percentage of the ones that call themselves women that are in jail are in there for sexual assault than the other men that are in jail.

It is annoying. Plopping on here (instead of AIBU), never reading a single other thread first to get a sense of the debates, pointing fingers and accusing all of mumsnet for being haters, and being yet another poster saying none of us have met or known someone trans.

Expecting everyone else to rush and justify/defend/explain themselves for worrying about the loss of single sex spaces and about the medicalisation of children and young adults. It is getting tedious.

I applaud those able to engage and attempt at a serious conversation.

Absolutely this. I’m more bothered about the title of the thread and its dodgy apostrophe. Mumsnet. All one word. No apostrophe.

(WhatsApp is the same but that’s a different argument … )

I quite like it. That way I can imagine every time I say "Oh, I only sequenced a genome and analysed it" in response to someone asking me what I did all day that they think I'm some sort of genius. Tbf I get my technicians to do the actual sequencing these days.

Oh what hate have you seen? Do give examples.

All the men I choose to have in my life are lovely. I still wouldn’t want them in women’s spaces and sports if they woke up tomorrow, popped on a nice dress and some make up and said they would now be living their best life as a woman.

There is no difference, especially in offending rates, between men and men, which is what trans women and cis men equates to.

That’s interesting, the one I met through work was a convicted pedophile, but he too was happy and confident and living his best life.

@Brightbluestone, she takes male hormones and has some stubble. She has an accent so voice is not masculine but ambiguous. She says that it is possible to find mixed facilities and she advocates for them, she prefers to use these and doesn’t really get involved in the trans women female spaces debate, but does obviously want the whole conversation to be had respectfully.

OP, as I previously said, the debate doesn’t necessarily come from a place of hate. There are haters throughout all sections of society. Female rights and the protections we have by way of the law, is not fundamentally hatred.

For balance, OP, do you have anything to say about some of the horrific and scary sentiments of hatred that is exhibited by a significant portion of the trans activist community.

The only people others regularly forget are people are women. Including in the context of trans rights. Lest it be forgotten, women were not actually consulted about the erosion of their spaces. One does not get to consent on behalf of another. The lack of respect for women is the foundation of all the conflict.

I know some lovely trans and non-binary people too. Despite their loveliness, women (and men too) need single-sex spaces and services.

Many gender critical women would have been happy to help their trans friends campaign for trans spaces had that been the path they had chosen to take.

Men do need their single sex spaces too. On the rare occasion a women has gone into the gents while DP's been in, he's not been happy, said nothing, but got discombobulated and wee anxiety if you will. Men don't tend to like women walking past the urinals, at least not the normal ones.

'Lovely'. So many transwomen seem to be 'lovely' or even 'lovely lovely' .
That's nice. But irrelevant.
There isn't one rule for the 'lovely' and another rule for the 'plain'.
If a space is designated as being for women, it's for biological women only.
It's not for biological women AND my lovely lovely trans friend.
That's not how it works.

Define man without:
Using the word man
Relying on regressive stereotypes
Excluding any men

Define woman without:
Using the word woman
Relying on regressive stereotypes
Excluding any women

That is because there are a lot more men who don’t identify as women than men who do. But the risk of a woman suffering a sexual assault is several times higher from man who identifies as a woman than other men (cf census).

And my lovely, lovely trans friend would agree. He always uses gender neutral or male facilities, depending on what is available, despite being a very slight transwoman whose had the surgery. Never had any major issues doing so either. Wasn't even raped within seconds, as a previous poster suggested was sure to happen!

And a Nigerian prince is a real prince so you should give hin all your money.

What about transwomen who aren't "lovely" ? Do they have to use the gents' while the lovely ones get to use the ladies' ? Who is the arbiter of loveliness? What is the cut-off score?

Hear hear OP! 100% with you - so much hate from women here for whom this issue plays almost certainly precisely zero significance in their lives. Keep sticking up for your friend OP, the munsnet bigots will be on the wrong side of history.

OP hates hairy masculine women in the women’s toilets.

How does surgery alter chromosomes?

It's fawning pish anyway. Nobody ever speaks about other women in the way women fawn over trans identified males. Which says everything.

Well done him. And it's very offensive to accuse the men in the bogs of definitely going to rape the friend within 20 seconds, isn't it. Not to go all 'not my Nigel' but very unlikely to happen. Amd yet something they seek to fantasise about. Odd, that.

I’m not lovely. Or even lovely.

I’m a bit of a cunt.

does that mean im not a woman?

Bless.