Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

I know. That concept is bonkers when viewed with a safeguarding lens.

You've certainly not read or thought about the EQA2010 legislation for a start.

It's less the 'right opinion' and more the existence of UK law.

There is no difference in fact, if male and female people are allowed in, it’s mixed sex.

The difference you describe is one of scale. So are you happy that some women are inconvenienced, upset or even sexually assaulted as long as it’s not ‘too many’?

That seem unfair on the unlucky women who happen to be in there when the trans identifying man walks in, don’t you think?

This wouldn't be imaginary tbh. Didn't some man on here recently threaten to drop their court case because some women on here asked him to not centre himself on another thread? Or they strop that everyone's telling them they can't speak at all if they're called out on being misogynistic.

Also on.the women who.will.self.exclude because they dont want to encounter a male

Still banging on, I see. And no, I haven’t bothered to read the whole thread, just checked to see that the same old same old is being trotted out. They really don’t like it up ‘em, do they? So boring and samey. It’s been years, grow the fuck up. You won’t win this, because it is all based on a lie.

Not the ‘majority’ though. Even one female person saying no this has been designated as a single sex provision and I do not consent to it any male person accessing it is the bar for consent.

And to be blunt, the law states that if a provision states that a provision is single sex, no proportion of people saying they consent will be lawful while that provision fits the single sex designation.

By that logic we'd all better hope men dont suddenly develop the ability to give birth though.

I mean anything could happen hypothetically.

As happened with the rape survivors who required single sex rape crisis services at ERCC - they self excluded because they were failed by ERCC.

Banging on 😂
You really don't like hearing other voices, do you?!
Let women speak!
No, hang on, not you .... 🙄

The 'arguments' havent changed. Still amount to 'I think its great to get naked with men so other women who don't are just silly and wrong', various insults about how sad/lonely/awful women with 'gc' ideas are, and random deflections and swerves.

I would be more convinced by that if any of you were able to counter my arguments rather than just ignoring them.

No, we are not "shouting past each other." I am countering her "arguments" (such as they are) by asking questions about the implications and making my own arguments against them.

She is ignoring that and just resorting to "I'm better than you" tactics like characterising objections as "tedious", "entrenched", "extreme" and so on rather than deal with the substance.

And this is a tactic that often works with women, because we are socialised to be sensitive to criticism of our character.

For that reason I find it a particularly pernicious avoidance tactic, and tend not to let it stand unchallenged.

Female people exist and matter. No one has yet explained why the only way to support trans identifying men is to use female resources, nor why only those men should qualify for this indulgence when so many men face challenges.

Oh, I forgot the repeated assertions that nobody else agrees with us despite what all the polls say and the Supreme Court says.

Then you won’t want a white womens equipment then will you? If you’re uncomfortable with her presence, why would you want to use her equipment?

“You can't give away the legal rights of others to safety and privacy just because you have a niche belief about whether men can be in women's single sex spaces.”

this ^^

When you are dealing with single sex provisions that have been protected by legislation and policy based on safeguarding, consent is not fucking gained by consensus of some people agreeing.

If any group wishes that provision to be removed from single sex designation, then steps must be taken to clearly do this. Such as removing any female language labels in reference to the provision to start with.

Its all ad homs, all the way down, I'm afraid.

what is the difference, if a male enters a female space it becomes a mixed sex space just like the other space doesn’t it?

You do understand that publicly accessible single sex provisions are not a provision governed by a group using the provision in a fleeting moment, it is publicly accessible. And the user group changes constantly.

“So just like I have a right to be there irrespective of how comfortable you feel with me present (because I am a woman), the law would state that trans women do.”

The law doesn’t state that male people with transgender identities have a right to be there though. I don’t understand this point.

I do t think I do.

I started with a fact: No one can disagree that including male people in a female space makes it mixed sex, that’s just a fact.

You keep claiming that all opinions including disagreement are valid but in order to actually be valid they need to be based on facts. The very epitome of an invalid opinion is one based on a fallacy or incorrect belief.

So I presented a fact and asked what was the factual basis for the ‘valid’ opinion disagreeing with that position. But now you have pivoted to talking about risk.

An opinion that ignores facts is not valid.

That's what Mr Justice Smith said in his decision that the EHRC guidance on the Supreme Court ruling was lawful:

One clear consequence of the conclusion reached in For Women Scotland was that if, for example, a service provider provided a service to be used both by women and transsexual women, that service would not be a single-sex service. [my emphasis]

And the follow-on from that is that where it is obligatory under workplace regs etc to provide single-sex facilities, allowing any trans identifying men to use the women's facilities is contravening the regulations.

That's the law, not an opinion or a preference or an entrenched view...

I dont think that will be the case. I think the law will eventually state, clearly, one way or the other, that trans people either are or are not their chosen sex and people who have a problem with that decision will be left to deal with their feelings.

Some women might disagree that trans women are male in any meaningful sense. So even if males are excluded, it won't include trans women.

Going back to this - why can't they do that?

There was no reason why Dr Upton could not change alongside his male colleagues, he managed to change alongside his male teammates in the all male hockey team he played for.

There was no reason why the male nurse in the Darlington case could not change alongside his male colleagues either.

No reason whatsoever.

Your solution that a woman should just call a cop or management to have a male trans identifiying person removed if they are causing a problem - why can't a trans identifying male just call the cops or management if they are caused prolems by other males when they are using the correct facility for their sex?

Women are not human shields or validation props for trans identifying males, why do you think they should be used as such?

No but it could. It depends on the opinions of the people who ultimately get a real say.

The law has already clearly that trans people remain their actual sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. (Also for the purposes of inherited peerages)