Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

Nice one, SPS😁
Glad to see you're embracing that particular aspect of being critical of gender stereotypes!

Haven’t you been censuring women for not being nice all through this thread?

So, what are the facts that make a feeling in a man (original sex based meaning)'s mind the same for all practical intents and purposes as having a female body?

Note, I'm not asking whether he is "a woman" or whether it's necessary for "a wonan" to have a female body, I just want to understand why people who do have female body should be considered interchangeable with people who don't because of some mental factor.

This seems pretty fundamental to me, yet no one has ever been able to give an evidenced factual answer that does not ultimately boil down to "we assume they must because some people report they believe they are really the opposite sex inside", a standard of evidence that has not been considered sufficient for other widely reported beliefs like ghosts, spiritualism, precognition, gods, manifestions of saints, and so on.

I'm still patiently waiting for the polls that show that the majority of women are perfectly okay with sharing single sex spaces and services with male people who say they're women...👀

What is the reason why they don't have better answers then?

Ah, so "patronising and arrogant" was a compliment was it? Please.

And still, no actual answers to my fundamental questions, or arguments to counter my points.

Come on. We both know if you had them you'd use them.

No one is saying women’s rights aren’t important. But we do need to be able to get on with people who have different views to our own.
I’m GC and very left leaning. I work with trans people, Tories and even a reform voter (🙄) - I try to get along with everyone and share my thoughts as well as listen to others. I have managed to stop one very traditional tory from voting for them, by listening and taking a reasoned approach to discussing voting.

I’d agree with focusing on other things for a while so people can get to know her, and her GC views aren’t the main thing they know about her.
Less polarisation is the way forward in my book.

This is a long thread so some posters may have missed OPs update. All her daughter did was like a video

My daughter is in her last year of university. She doesn’t talk about her GC views except at home or in very rare circumstances. But she recently liked a video on social media (not a particularly controversial one but linked to women’s rights/trans issues) and that was enough for two longstanding friends to condemn her.

The thing is, there are so many good discussions and positive possibilities that could come out of trans people and gender critical feminists together exploring gender, gender identity, sex and social expectations. Conversations, changes and solutions that open things up not just for trans identifying people but for everyone.

But as long as "trans rights" are myopically focussed on this one single, zero-sum, logically incoherent "solution" of accomodating trans people by pretending they are the opposite sex (because whatever they may say about sex is not gender, that is what the demands in practice actually boil down to) , we can't have those conversations.

It would help if you read the OP's posts. There are very few of them. That would mean you wouldn't jump to your conclusion that her daughter's GC views may be the main thing people know about her. It is notable that so many posters have jumped directly to the view that it must be the young woman's fault.

You work with trans people. Great. That's not unusual.

Do you have to change your clothes at work? Clean up or shower? Are you happy with an intact male in the changing rooms/showers at the same time as you are undressing? Do you mind if he walks around in holey boxers and asks you why you are not getting undressed yet? Women at work have to deal with this.

If you don't have to, then you cannot tell other women to try to get along with everyone and take a reasoned approach. If you do have to, and don't mind - then that's great for you, but you have no right to consent on behalf of your fellow workers.

Even a... Reform voter?!

😱🙄

Less polarisation indeed...

@Currentquandry I'm so glad you got what you needed from this thread. But yes, quite the wild ride!!

I guess it does all help to build a bigger picture, particularly for anyone who is reading along and maybe feeling in a similar position to your daughter - perhaps finding themselves feeling at odds with the opinion that those around them expect them to hold but not really knowing what to make of that feeling or to do with it.

Regarding the thread, we've got facts from Helleabore 🙏 (and others), tenacity from multiple posters (many of whom have been doing this for years. Thank you! 💐) and weaponised DARVOing from (thankfully) a tiny minority.

And lots else besides, including a bit of intersectionality. That used to totally blow my mind when it came up. Every time I thought I understood something about gender identity, and tried to keep that as my focus, along came a totally different subject that was also somehow connected. As if the subject of gender identity wasn't big enough anyway 🤯 All we're really missing from this thread now is a Gaza/Israel discussion.... No, that's not a request 😬🙃

My natural leaning, when I first started this journey (way before I found MN) was to assume that the most important thing above all else was kindness... and that most people who share their opinion on gender identity do come from a genuine intention of kindness. I began to see cracks in that quite early on, when it came to people in positions of influence who purported to be kind and knowledgeable. I would still like to think that most people who stumble upon this subject are motivated by kindness. Or certainly what they believe in good faith to be kindness. Unfortunately it only takes a very small number of nefarious people to take that genuine kindness and twist it into something else.

What a shitty, lonely and unkind place it can be when it turns out that having any opinion that isn't a full TWAW endorsement can land you in hot water IRL. And on here, obviously. But thankfully we can step away from these threads whenever we want.

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️

(And I don't think we'll solve it before the imminent end of this thread 🙃)

They’re the people I find it hardest not to be rude to 🤣

And we wonder why people don’t want to listen to our GC views 🙄

The point is there are always people who will disagree with everything you believe in the world. Personally I find it exhausting to go around being so snippy.

Honestly, never read such an ironic post, and I've read quite a few.

All she did was "like' a video on social media. Is that too polarising?

We do? I don't. Eye rolling seems a bit uncalled for.

Your expectations of a thoughtful response are too optimistic, I suspect.

'Threads nearly done. Anymore name callers, now's your chance to prove how KIND you are by casting aspersions on women who are tiresome, snippy, amd extreme!

No! But there is such a thing as civilised codes of conduct when engaging in debate.

In all seriousness, as an ex teacher, I'd like to see critical thinking and debating skills taught more formally in schools. Social media has, by its nature, involved everyone in political commentary - but without the necessary skill set to do so successfully. Thinking has to be taught......it does not come naturally.

No.

You will never win any argument in the long run if your points are not reasoned and consistently followed through. " No" does not cut it. You've failed to respond to multiple reasoned requests for evidence and/or detailed illustration of your points.

Hooray! We have agreement!.😀