Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

And yet again, the polls say otherwise. Women don't want men in their single sex spaces occasionally, frequently, daily or hourly. In fact - the majority don't want them there at all.

A space can't be ' a bit' mixed sex. It is or it isnt.

Why don’t you have a problem with men in women’s spaces? Why are you prioritising men over women?

Ok.

But what has this got to do with legislated and policy designated single sex provisions?

If a group of women want to meet up with a view that they have a segregated group, and it is clearly segregated, are you finding much pushback on that suggestion here on FWR? I would have thought that many of us would support this kind of initiative if it was clearly stated.

Last time.

You know how GC people often feel they are formally silenced from stating their views/protesting etc?

Imagine there was going to be a GC awareness event organised by a GC charity, but due to a range of reasons, it wasnt going to be well funded or supported.

Now, there are men in this GC charity, both in official capacities and those who attend meets as members. It was never restricted to women or anything like that. But for this specific event, in the wake of a trans woman murdering a woman and her child, you think it is really important that only women organise and host this event.

Now one of the men in the charity could provide a space for you to host this. He is a regular and long term member and helps out often. He offers this space and you readily accept. A little later, he finds out that there are meetings and conversations that he isnt part of and isn't getting a say in. You reiterate that you think it's really important that this is women led and he argues with that but reluctantly accepts that he is outvoted.

He then withdraws the offer of the space

So you’re accusing general white women (and men) of being racist to justify excluding her from being involved in the organisation of an event that wanted to use her expensive equipment

Sheesh
No, I read it that they' saying that white women can be just as racist as their male counterparts.
They're not automatically not racist just on account of being a woman!

The point is that all women have an equally valid opinion on the matter. Regardless of whether it is in the minority or majority of all women. Part of respecting other women is respecting that their opinions are as valid as yours. Even where they greatly differ.

I've been changing in women's changing rooms for 47 years of my life, trans women have been using women's changing rooms for that long and longer, and funnily enough what I haven't been doing for those 47 years is obsessing about what the genitals of the person next to me might look like. Though I do appreciate fixating on other people's genitals is a major pastime of many in the GC movement and if you stopped doing that you'd have to find some other way to fill your time. Perhaps you could learn to play a musical instrument?

I'm sorry, but you clearly have not thought about this deeply, because if you had you would have better answers.

It's abundantly clear you have no justification for prioritising male wants over the moral rights of female people to define who we are and speak plainly about the reality and challenges of being female outside whatever it is that trans "women" may feel about themseves. All you have is an emotional reaction that female needs matter less. All you have is emotional blackmail.

I suggest you do the hard work of challenging yourself to understand why that is - why your default reaction is to value women's needs below these particular men when the reality is we have nothing more in common with them than any other man do there is no basis on which they have more right to female language, resources and rights than any other man.

I'm sorry, but you clearly have not thought about this deeply, because if you had you would have better answers*

You just haven't educated yourself enough! Come to the RIGHT conclusion!
😡😂
FFS 😁

What about when they masturbate in front of me? I dont care what his genitals look like, I do care that he is rubbing them.

Sometimes that is true. And sometimes people actually are wrong.

To me this appears to be one of the latter times.

If she really has good clear logical arguments for why women (female people)'s needs and rights matter less than those of trans identifying men she is welcome to make them.

So supply answers that arent just insulting women with different opinions?

But one can just keep repeating that their andwer isnt good enough. What they mean is that "that answer doesnt satisfy me enough to change my mind so it is invalid". And those people should reflect on that

The difference with single sex provisions is the concept of consent within a very clear safeguarding situation.

Being naked or partially naked or in a vulnerable position or where there is a safety issue does need the concept of consent to be considered. The consent part is usually assumed consent that a female person expects a single sex provision to be female only.

And that consent cannot be overridden by another female person because she feels it is ‘ok’ and she doesn’t consider it a risk for herself. That is the difference in my opinion, when discussing single sex provisions. Just because a woman thinks it is fine to have only mixed sex provisions because she is fine seeing a man’s penis she didn’t give individual consent to see, she had no right to dismiss another woman’s non-consent because she either doesn’t recognise it as legitimate or dismisses it for any reason.

I know, right?

They seem outraged that other women can have different opinions to theirs.

What makes it more ironic is that I still maintain that this kind of extreme TERF-ism is very much an outlier. Most people are a lot more ' live-and-let-live ' about it all.

If I go to the bathroom and there's a trans woman in there, it really doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think most people feel the same.

Well, great. The stats show otherwise, but you do you, boo.

No they don't actually - as has already been said, the polls are very clear on what most women think about men in their loos (I presume you're using bathrooms to mean loos and toilets).

I’m outraged that you think that the feelings of men come before the safety and dignity of women and giris. And not one of you can articulate why.

It can be said not to violate consent if the majority of women decide that TWAW and therefore they count as much as I do in a changing room with you. So just like I have a right to be there irrespective of how comfortable you feel with me present (because I am a woman), the law would state that trans women do.

You just need to hope it continues to stay the way it is (or is it?).

That makes no logical sense though.

It only takes one male accessing the provision to remove the single sex provision status. It is not about the ratio of male people to female people in the provision. It is not about how many access it. The single sex status is negated by one male person accessing it. This was also mentioned in the Supreme Court judgement.

😂
There's always someone who outs themselves with their lack of empathy, insight and concern for girls and women - let alone knowing the law. A real "I'm all right mate" attitude.

Sad times

A male (however they identify) in a female single sex space means that it is no longer a single sex space. It becomes a mixed sex space. Because there are both males and females in it.

Trying to pretend that this is not the case is absolutely mystifying. You may want to make to make a case that all such spaces and services should be mixed sex but then the question becomes why the men who pretend they are women can't just use the mixed sex facilities rather than demanding access to women's services.

Not in the case of single sex provision though. That is where laws and policy protection remove this potential for safeguarding loopholes to be created.

That's not how safeguarding or consent works. You can't give away the legal rights of others to safety and privacy just because you have a niche belief about whether men can be in women's single sex spaces.
You can't give away every girl and woman's right to say "No I don't consent to a man undressing alongside me in an open plan swimming pool changing room" just because it's an idea you're keen on.