Daughter in early 20s lonely due to GC views

[Currentquandry]

My daughter is in her early twenties. She is GC and is struggling because so few of her peers have similar opinions. She is very lonely because of this. Are there any online groups she could join to give her a sense of community? She is also ND. Thank you in advance for your advice…

And fuck off with the hyperbole. People are free to identify as whatever they want.

Yet on another thread going on right now there's some taking it personally when a trans man "defects to the dark side', it's like "losing one of our own" etc.
It's gone beyond "identifying as whatever you want" for some.
Hyperbole coming from both sides, it seems.

People who believe that women should retain their legal right to single sex services and spaces, as detailed in the Equality Act 2010, which includes rape crisis services, prisons, domestic abuse refuges, sports etc.

And neither do you.

These polls that I have posted here that have been done by yougov are also not sponsored by anyone. They are part of a yougov tracking as part of general opinion because they recognised that it was a growing discussion topic.

Please look at the data links that I have posted and tell me how this polling data is not reflective of the current UK trends now that people are seeing exactly what the inclusion of male people in female single sex provisions means for female people?

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov-Transgender_study_2024.pdf

I look forward to an actual discussion about them rather than just more dismissal.

What "ideology" are you referring to here?

The belief that as long as body sex has consequences, we should have language and potentially rights and protections that are specific to body sex without reference to whatever gebder a person may or may not feel they have?

The belief that it is neither scientifically correct nor socially progressive to classify minds as of type "man" or "woman" as a characteristic in its own right that exists independently of body sex and then use that classification to segregate provisions and support?

The belief that if it is reasonable for a man to tell a woman he is just like her based on his assessment of what is a d is not significant to womanhood, it is t least equally reasonable for her to say he is not based on hers?

Thank you. Does that mean anti trans? Sorry if I've got that completely wrong 🙈😂

You're going to get lots of different answers and interpretations to that one depending on who's answering 😁
Gender critical basically what it says - people who are "critical of gender."
As in, don't believe in gender, and say it's a made up construct.
Usually conflating sex with gender and not realising or understanding that they're two totally different things.

"well linked to multiple, and extremely well funded, orthodox christian and far right groups."

This is just plain false.

Feminists, left leaning women, have been the ones raising the alarms about including male people in female single sex provisions. There are many interviews where those feminists are discussing the issues, and suggesting 'accommodations'.

Your repeated reference to 'well funded, orthodox christian and far right groups" may refer to what has happened in the USA recently. However, even in the USA it was Democratic Party women raising the alarm first.

"orthodox christian and far right groups" have been very late to this topic. Even here on MN, we were discussing it and even then noted when those groups started to get involved. Making that false claim is simply just spreading misinformation. Do you think that the fact that "orthodox christian and far right groups" think that water is wet and that the moon orbits the sun means that no one else should believe those things? That is the level of argument that you have just engaged in.

No, it is not anti-trans to advocate for the exclusion of a male person from a female single sex provision.

It can be said to 'misandrist' but it is not driven by hate so even that is inaccurate and mischaracterises the issue.

Do you think that female people should have single sex provisions that fully exclude male people over about 8 years old? Do you consider wanting that 'anti-trans'.

If not, how should that be phrased? 'anti-male-transgender-people-inclusion-into-female-single-sex-provisions'? Quite a mouthful, but maybe. Mind you 'anti-male-transgender-people-inclusion-into-female-single-sex-provisions' there are numerous professionally conducted general population based polls that show this is the majority opinion of the general UK population.

Maybe we could just say 'the majority of the UK population' rather than 'anti-trans' which is again very often emotionally manipulative in its use and used to shame people who don't believe that male people should be treated as if they are female people.

Roughly speaking, some people say that 'gender' should take prexedence over sex and be the basis of rights.

Gc people say that when there is a meaningful difference its sex that matters, not gender.

"Gender" in the sense of "Gender critical" just means the social constructions and expectations laid onto men and women because of their sex. We see Gevder as part of sexism.

So while we recognise we are all brought up with and to some degree cannot avoid these gebder constructs because of social expectations and pressure starting from rhe day we are born, we nevertheless believe Feninists should understand and challenge the mechanisms of gender as one of the primary mechanisms that keep.women marginalised and excluded from social, political and economic power, and one of the mechanisms through which domestic exploitation of women by their partners is effected.

So it is not that GC is 'anti trans" so much that GC is anti gender. Not just for trans people but for everyone.

From a gender critical perspective, transgender identities are just jumping from.one sexist box to another and claiming it's freedom when the real freedom is just to get rid of the boxes.

Or to put it another way, Gender is the mechanism by which we are conned into building our own boxes and believing we choose them freely

I mean the TERF ideology. Hope that clears it up.

Phrases like GC are unnecessary, it’s like cis.

It makes ‘gender critical’ seem like some niche or complex viewpoint and confuses people who aren’t clued up on this whole debate.

Content warning....

https://terfisaslur.com/

Men who call women 'terfs' always seem to have that small dick energy.

Agree.

It'e even a bit hard to explain!

'Gender' advocates think that a man can become a woman if he says so.

'Gender critical' feminists think there are two sexes, its not possible to change sex, and that laws about sexism wtc should be based on sex.

Please do not tell women what to think and say, we are allowed to hold our own opinions these days and speak about them if we wish. The days when men could tell us what to think, say and do are long gone in case you hadn't noticed.

Can you explain what that ideology is, please?

Didn't it just @FlirtsWithRhinos ......

You manifestly do care how other people describe themselves based on your very extensive posting history on this board.

It's amazing how dishonest some people will be to make a point. Bluntly, if you genuinely didn't care how other people describe themselves, you wouldn't spend so much time here.

Probably the oldest and most over used misogynist terms men hurl at women when we refuse to be doormats

Examples to back that up?

Your first two paragraphs were spot on, in my opinion. But the third doesn't work for me. I have trans people in my life, one of whom I wish was much more in my life but he is offended because I don't see him as a woman. So I don't wish he didn't exist; I do wish he could recognise that it's not irrational to be sceptical of trans identity thinking. There is a compromise to be made, but it cannot require everyone to see him as a woman, or to remove sex-based categories.

You misunderstand.

It's not the description that is the problem, it is the demands it is used to justify.

Man says he is a woman, everyone else says "of course you are dear, nice dress, now pop off back to the gents. I'll just file your application to be the women's union representative in the "doesn't meet the basic requirement" file. - No issue

Man says he is a woman, everyone else says "of course you are dear, please use female single sex spaces, take it upon yourself as a woman to speak for women on the female experience and what does and doesn't matter to women, of course you are eligible for women's sports and women's prizes and wow didn't uou do well?" - Big issue.

Do you see the difference?