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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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16
Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:30

Shortshriftandlethal · 03/04/2026 11:00

Bet you are glad to be shot of him.

A friend of mine tells me that many gay dating apps are now full of straight men looking for a TW to hook up with; and he also says that a surprising number of gay men like to wear female underwear.

Edited

It's not unknown for masculine lesbians to wear boxer shorts either. I don't think it's very common though.

EmpressaurusKitty · 04/04/2026 16:33

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2026 15:52

I used to feel that way too until I realised that they're everywhere in government, NGOs, and other power structures (local, national and international) and they're using their positions to undermine societal accommodation for women's need in order to make society suit their particularly male wants instead.

They're trying to force society to see women as a collection of sexist stereotypes just so they can claim those stereotypes make them women too. They're removing safeguarding so that they can enter female-only spaces and occupations. They're working to ensure that children are taught dangerous genderist thinking in order to provide cover for adult male fetishes. They're interfering with medical protocols in order to gain access to female hormones and thus reducing availability for women who actually need HRT for menopause symptoms.

They're everywhere, happily working away on fucking things up for women and girls.

Yes. You’re absolutely right.

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:39

LeftieRightsHoarder · 04/04/2026 13:53

I don’t. She’s a disgusting person.

She defended the killing of two people by ICE agents earlier this year, before any investigation had been held.
She also admits in her autobiography that she shot and killed her pet dog (which she had failed to train adequately), and killed a goat because she found it smelly.

It's funny but I've noticed this pattern with Republican female politicians. They tell Democrat women off for being unfeminine but they often arguably don't act in a feminine way themselves. Sarah Palin was similar, she had a fine old time swanning about with a gun & shooting moose during her time in the spotlight.
Or look at figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Laura Ingraham (Fox News presenter), Lauren Boebert, Ann Coulter : very aggressive speech style, but OK in conservative Republican terms because they dress in a very feminine way and mostly have multiple kids (never mind that most Dem women have kids too..)..

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:40

Justme56 · 03/04/2026 12:32

Isn’t there something going on at the moment about Ethel Cain popping ‘her penis’ out on Instagram. No idea who they are but I guess a TW.

What?? I was just listening to a podcast about Cain as I like their music. Had no idea they behaved like that.

FictionalCharacter · 04/04/2026 16:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:47

TempestTost · 03/04/2026 15:23

I suspect this is true, however, it's arguably not a lot differernt than when female people try to appeal to men in how they dress and behave. I'm not sure I'd put it in the same box as cross dressing by straight men where it seems like there is often a massively reductive view of women, a humiliation element, and also some kind of problem with subject/object separation.

In general, if we think about how young people in their teen years come to terms with being sexual people, there is to some extent an internalisation of common social expressions of that. We know we are attracted to men or women, and we want to be attractive to them as well, and there is a way that it translates into an image of our self that takes on some, or maybe a lot, of the social trappings of femininity or masculinity.

Not everyone does it to the same extent, and there are more versions of femininity and masculinity than we sometimes admit, and many are not hyper-sexual. But I think that is a process in adolescence that almost everyone goes through to some extent. It's mostly not done consciously imo either.

But if your sexual interest is more focused on people who are the same sex as you, it's potentially a little more complicated to navigate, and I think you are right, for some gay men who tend to be attracted more to straight men, or have their own discomfort with same sex attraction, cross-sex identification can seem like a way out. Again, not necessarily consciously.

I agree with this. I view it differently to AGP. It's fair to say some gay men do like a more feminine look, but generally not drag queen style. As you say, men who do that are often more attracted to straight men/uncomfortable with idea of being gay, so try to become the straight male object of desire.

FictionalCharacter · 04/04/2026 16:55

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2026 15:52

I used to feel that way too until I realised that they're everywhere in government, NGOs, and other power structures (local, national and international) and they're using their positions to undermine societal accommodation for women's need in order to make society suit their particularly male wants instead.

They're trying to force society to see women as a collection of sexist stereotypes just so they can claim those stereotypes make them women too. They're removing safeguarding so that they can enter female-only spaces and occupations. They're working to ensure that children are taught dangerous genderist thinking in order to provide cover for adult male fetishes. They're interfering with medical protocols in order to gain access to female hormones and thus reducing availability for women who actually need HRT for menopause symptoms.

They're everywhere, happily working away on fucking things up for women and girls.

This absolutely nails it. The Be Kind And Inclusive brigade have no idea what they're enabling. Yet if they really thought about it - especially the older ones who grew up before TWAW was everywhere - they'd realise that there is no other reason for e.g. not just accommodating "trans girls" in Girlguiding and TW in the WI as members, quietly participating, but trans people appearing everywhere in positions of authority in all these organisations.

Iamthemoom · 04/04/2026 17:10

Smartiepants79 · 03/04/2026 10:49

Does anyone personally know of a ‘trans’ man who chooses to dress like your average women in the street? Like jeans and a jumper, leggings and a hoodie, chinos and shirts??
Weirdly this was something I was wondering about recently.

Edited

I had a friend back in the 90s who was a TW and wore jeans and T-shirts all the time and very little to no make up. And I had a friend growing up in the 80s who dressed up to go out (though no more than I did) but wore jeans otherwise. But maybe that was a different time and a different sort of TW. It wasn’t a trend back then, and my friend in the 80s faced a lot of abuse in the street or out at pubs/clubs. So to live as trans in the 80s/90s was a much harder thing and not a choice anyone would make lightly imho.

HardyEustace · 04/04/2026 17:14

JennyShaw · 03/04/2026 09:45

I don't feel sorry for his wife. She is Kristi Noem, a conservative politician, and she has opposed gay marriage.

What? So you can’t feel sorry for her because she’s conservative?

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2026 17:19

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:40

What?? I was just listening to a podcast about Cain as I like their music. Had no idea they behaved like that.

Cain has a weird obsession with Lana Del Ray that is creepy (and nasty towards her) to say the least.

Lana Del Ray has commented publicly more than once to say how uncomfortable and worried Cain’s behaviour makes her feel. She has also pointed out more than once Cain’s obsession with missing teenage girls - Cain even used real missing posters as album art.

Cain just screams wrong’un from what I’ve read of his own social media posts.

A lot of this is being discussed on TwiX at the moment because Cain posted a dick pic on Instagram very recently and it wasn’t removed by mods for being inappropriate.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 16:47

I agree with this. I view it differently to AGP. It's fair to say some gay men do like a more feminine look, but generally not drag queen style. As you say, men who do that are often more attracted to straight men/uncomfortable with idea of being gay, so try to become the straight male object of desire.

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2026 18:04

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

👏👏👏

Well said!!!

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 18:15

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

Good point re drag. You could argue that channelling opposite sex iconography the way drag does isn't necessarily by definition misogynistic : lesbians who do drag don't necessarily view men as lesser beings/only symbols.

But in a society like ours which unfortunately still has a lot of sexism, men imitating women in that way is inherently different.

Waitwhat23 · 04/04/2026 18:17

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

Well said. Any suggestion that drag inherently demeans women is inevitably met with indignation that 'it's just an expression/celebration of feminity!!' as if we're meant to be somehow chuffed to be mocked by a collection of male held stereotypes. With outlandish make up on.

Bertiebiscuit · 04/04/2026 18:52

HermioneWeasley · 03/04/2026 10:32

As Mary Cate Delvey says “it’s a fucking fetish”

I bloody love Mary Cate Delvey ❤️❤️💕💖💞

Bertiebiscuit · 04/04/2026 19:01

PrettyDamnCosmic · 03/04/2026 12:05

Grayson Perry says that he wears a voluminous skirt to hide his erection when presenting as 'Clare'

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮He's gross, how a straight woman, or any woman can put up with him is beyond me

Bertiebiscuit · 04/04/2026 19:14

LeftieRightsHoarder · 04/04/2026 13:53

I don’t. She’s a disgusting person.

She defended the killing of two people by ICE agents earlier this year, before any investigation had been held.
She also admits in her autobiography that she shot and killed her pet dog (which she had failed to train adequately), and killed a goat because she found it smelly.

She still doesn't deserve an abusive husband

Heggettypeg · 04/04/2026 19:40

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

It reminds me a bit of "noble savage-ing", where a highly selective, often romanticised view of another, outside, group is used as a stick to beat one's own society with.

The image of the outgroup that is promoted has more to do with the particular bee in the user's bonnet than with the real preoccupations and values of the group they are making use of.

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2026 19:41

Re my earlier post, I came across this post on TwiX from Róisín Michaux on the same subject:

https://x.com/RoisinMichaux/status/2040472160129499293?s=20

How many closet crossdressers are out there? And to what degree are they influencing policy on sex erasure?

This is the same guy, a couple of years apart. The second one is taken from a (clean) private group for “trans women”.

The tone of the first post is so familiar. It’s the exact same tone you hear from many straight men who you thought were otherwise very reasonable.

Non-TwiX link for those without access:
https://nitter.net/RoisinMichaux/status/2040472160129499293#m

Róisín Michaux (@RoisinMichaux) on X

How many closet crossdressers are out there? And to what degree are they influencing policy on sex erasure? This is the same guy, a couple of years apart. The second one is taken from a (clean) private group for “trans women”. The tone of the first...

https://x.com/RoisinMichaux/status/2040472160129499293?s=20

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/04/2026 20:16

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 18:15

Good point re drag. You could argue that channelling opposite sex iconography the way drag does isn't necessarily by definition misogynistic : lesbians who do drag don't necessarily view men as lesser beings/only symbols.

But in a society like ours which unfortunately still has a lot of sexism, men imitating women in that way is inherently different.

You only have to look at what passes for comedy in much of drag, and many of the drag queen names, to understand how women are viewed with contempt or disgust by many gay men.

I know of one male teacher who identified as 'trans'.He was gay; a face always plastered full of make-up - that the female pupils (an all girl school) were not permitted, once referred to some of the really quite vulnerable girls in his LGBTQ+ lunchtime club, as " little slags".

Carla786 · 04/04/2026 23:55

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/04/2026 20:16

You only have to look at what passes for comedy in much of drag, and many of the drag queen names, to understand how women are viewed with contempt or disgust by many gay men.

I know of one male teacher who identified as 'trans'.He was gay; a face always plastered full of make-up - that the female pupils (an all girl school) were not permitted, once referred to some of the really quite vulnerable girls in his LGBTQ+ lunchtime club, as " little slags".

Edited

What a horrible man! Were you able to report him for saying that about the girls?

TempestTost · 05/04/2026 00:49

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/04/2026 17:50

They may grow from different seeds, but both grow in the soil of the same sexism. Both groups of men see "women" as a kind of raw material to build their own meanings out of.

Drag is the same. If you focus on the men, it's a subversive fuck you to straight society and its tradition of viewing of gay men as feminised. But if you think about what it says about women ourselves ... well, it doesn't. We are just symbols for the society they are critiquing, straightforward and superficial objects. Women's subjectively complex relationship with the social roles we are offered and inhabit within that society and how even our acceptable roles other and abuse us isn't part of the act.

We are just the medium for their man to man messages. We only have the meanings they give to us.

I don't really agree with that. Drag is another thing altogether.

It makes total sense for women or men who find themselves attracted to straight men to want to embody the kinds of socially defined signals those men are attracted to. The vast majority of men and women do this to some extent. I'd agree if you said it was about sex, but that is not the same as saying it reduces women to being sexual objects.

For gay men who find themselves in that position the tragedy of that is that it won't really work, no matter how the social construction of their relation to male sexual desire tries to embrace femininity, they won't really be female and they mostly won't be attractive to straight men. But it's not strange that they would feel attracted to embracing femininity, the same way a young woman would, or a young man feels attracted to clothes and styles that are seen as attractive to women.

UtopiaPlanitia · 05/04/2026 01:46

Another example of what motivates a lot of these men,m. They post on their own forums about this stuff all the time and then act all shocked and hurt when a mirror is held up to their behaviour.

Seeing their own words/thoughts lets you see what they truly think of women and why they want to try and be this twisted idea of what they think women really are and should be:

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/2040455381118259370

'Ew ew ew ew fvcking ew.

The “estrogen turns me into a b*tch in heat” thing is one of the most porn-fed, disgusting aspects of mtf transgenderism. I HATE the way these men see womanhood. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s fvcking gross, and so are they.'

Non-TwiX link:
https://nitter.net/sappholives83/status/2040455381118259370

Diana Alastair💚🤍💜 ⚢ ❌❌ (@sappholives83) on X

Ew ew ew ew fvcking ew. The “estrogen turns me into a b*tch in heat” thing is one of the most porn-fed, disgusting aspects of mtf transgenderism. I HATE the way these men see womanhood. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s fvcking gross, and so are they.

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/2040455381118259370

ScathingAngelAgrona · 05/04/2026 05:47

UtopiaPlanitia · 05/04/2026 01:46

Another example of what motivates a lot of these men,m. They post on their own forums about this stuff all the time and then act all shocked and hurt when a mirror is held up to their behaviour.

Seeing their own words/thoughts lets you see what they truly think of women and why they want to try and be this twisted idea of what they think women really are and should be:

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/2040455381118259370

'Ew ew ew ew fvcking ew.

The “estrogen turns me into a b*tch in heat” thing is one of the most porn-fed, disgusting aspects of mtf transgenderism. I HATE the way these men see womanhood. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s fvcking gross, and so are they.'

Non-TwiX link:
https://nitter.net/sappholives83/status/2040455381118259370

Brain bleach, please.

Some men…enjoy their delusions and wish others to participate.

GeneralPeter · 05/04/2026 06:40

JennyShaw · 03/04/2026 09:45

I don't feel sorry for his wife. She is Kristi Noem, a conservative politician, and she has opposed gay marriage.

I’m no fan of Noem, but if “has opposed gay marriage” is your line, that’s Biden, Obama, both Clintons out, John Edwards, Al Gore, the list goes on and on.

Even UK Stonewall opposed as late as 2010.

Arguably the US’s main proponent of gay marriage was Andrew Sullivan (a conservative, and former classmate of Keir Starmer weirdly).