Poor Semenya

[RumNotRun]

https://news.sky.com/story/if-women-must-stop-competing-so-be-it-semenyas-rallying-cry-over-olympics-transgender-athlete-ban-13525463

He's fighting for women's dignity apparently. The article says nothing about the children he's fathered, whilst being a woman of course.

I'm thinking there must be some major thing happening somewhere and Ugly is a plant trying to distract us from that by repeatedly posting on this thread and keeping us busy.

But its sooooooooooo complicated and we just caaaaaaaaaaannnnt possibly understand it.

I'm back.
I see having a BSc in Molecular Biology and Genetics, or in Human Developmental Biology, just isn't good enough for Uglydumpling .

If it's to complicated for Uglydumpling to understand, it's too complicated for anybody with less than a - what level would be sufficient for you to take their word, Uglydumpling ?

I'm returning to your earlier post:
Uglydumpling·Original·Today 19:28
My knowledge is just gathered over time amd what is topically being discussed
which I responded to in a positive way.

However, you edited it so it read
Uglydumpling · Today 19:28
My knowledge is just gathered over time and what is being discussed topically - I’m not someone who says it’s definitely this and I’m not listening to grey - I don’t know how you can make that claim when the medical establishment isn’t even sure yet
to which I would not have responded in such a positive way, as it was just another of your unsupported claims about the medical establishment.

When you clicked on 'edit post', did you not read that it is supposed to be used to correct typos, not to change the content of the post?

No, all humans are biologically male or female.

Some humans have a DSD that affects the biological expression of their sex.

Culturally we may decide to draw a line around those people to include members of both sexes with DSDs and call them "intersex", but it's simply a cultural label, it is not a fact of biology.

That such people actually were "intersex", or to use an even older term, "hermaphrodite", was an understandable assumption when we didn't have the scientific understanding and ability to investigate subtle differences that we do today. However, we do now know at the biological level "intersex" as an actual biological state between the sexes is not real, and it does not become real even if culturally we consider it a useful way to think about some people.

(To the latter, I must in good conscience recognise that while the term "intersex" is meaningful to some people including some people with DSDs, many others find it outmoded and offensive. The phrasing "even if" is purposeful; I am illustrating the logical boundaries of a cultural concept of "intersex" should it be commonly accepted. I am not suggesting it is or should be commonly accepted).

...the medical establishment isn’t even sure yet...

I'd love to read the sources that back up this assertion.

I have been looking for some evidence of Caster’s junior athletics performance and can find nothing prior to 2008 when he would have been 17. Highly unusual for a top athlete not to have results from childhood 🤷‍♀️

But I did spot this passage from his Wikipedia propaganda page:

Semenya said that she was born with a vagina and internal undescended testes but that she has no uterus or fallopian tubes and does not menstruate.[11][24][25] Her internal testes produce natural testosterone levels in the typical male range.[11][26] Semenya rejects the label of "intersex", calling herself "a different kind of woman".[26]

So Semenya rejects the term intersex for himself and is just a “different kind of woman” 🤔

The wiki page also states:

Later reports disclosed that Semenya has the condition 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency (5αR2D) and natural testosterone levels in the typical male range.[10][11]

Simple DSDs are covered in the current AQA GCSE biology course

He wore ladies’ clothes when he was racing, could it be that?

He improved his 800m time by 7 seconds within a 9 month period in 2009. That tells me that he had not been a serious runner prior to 2008 so was scouted and became a runner because of his DSD.

Maaaaate...
I have reasonable experience of Africa.

Even back in the 1970s, breasts were only uncovered under specific circumstances (breastfeeding and traditional dancing - and not always even then), or within some very traditional communities in the absolute back end of beyond.

The UN and WHO also insist that men are actually women if they say they are so I think we can take their pronouncements with a pinch of salt.

Actual people with DSDs ask not to be othered by implying they are not one sex or the other. They deserve some respect.

Some discussions really do require adult beverages.
I feel your pain.

He didn't even do that. This is the Rio 800m final.
The three medal winners are in motley range of outfits. All the women are wearing the same running knickers and cropped vests

My bad.

That photograph really hammers home how unfair this situation was to the female athletes 😢

I'm two big glasses of wine down and just wondering if we have any vodka.

They might well do in some rural parts of Africa. But I agree the person does not look anything like a girl. Just being pedantic.

Well Uglydumpling has gone quiet. Maybe enrolling on a biology course as we speak 🤞🏻

Yes there is - it was declared in Semenya’s case at CAS.

https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-244348#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-244348%22]}

46XY 5-ARD, internal testes, circulating levels of testosterone in the male range, fully androgen sensitive, fully virilised.

But we are talking basic biology.

There are two sexes.

Male is one.

Female is the other.

There are no others.

That is (checks notes) definitely covered in GCSE biology.

<<<<<double gavel>>>>>

Probably gone to the pub quiz.

😬

Could I also point out that 2 of the other athletes in this photo also have the same DSD?

Not on the beach in Durban.

I thought of one other time when breasts might be uncovered in Africa: traditional ceremonies.

Wow yes. Never mind Semanya, look at the hulking guy on the left.

And Lynsey Sharp, who finished 6th, so 3rd of the actual women, a bronze medal she never got, was told by Semenya after speaking about about it that she should have trained harder.

No training in the world would have beaten three men.