A UK forum is encouraging a desperate parent of a trans identified male to seek out DIY hormones, without consulting health care professionals, how is this dangerous advice legal?

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

OP "If anyone could help me to understand, I would be extremely grateful. I just want my daughter to be alive and happy in her own skin as much as possible ."

Responses: "diy is reliable and safe, there are communities that will be able to help, and really all it is getting a blood test every now and then to check how low or high a couple numbers are and adjusting accordingly."

Full details here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1rw0bac/please_help_parent_to_a_16_year_old/

How is this even slightly legal? The pro anorexia sites were shut down right? The pro suicide?

Research?

What research? I thought there wasn't any.

@TiredOfYourLies

It seems you missed this ^ question earlier in the thread so I'll repeat it.

Does your "social role" extend into women's spaces?

Or do you not want to answer that?

Well a lot of the ‘evidence’ offered on this thread and elsewhere for surgical treatments for people with trans identities consists of ‘I feel so much better now I’ve transitioned’.

I don’t think there is much scientific evidence is there? Others have posted some upthread that suggests outcomes might be neutral or in fact negative.

I see a ‘distorted view of reality’ in both conditions. A man who believes he is a woman or can become a woman has a distorted view of reality.

I mean, it does. Google is free.

It's why the Levy review into trans healthcare didn't recommend a ban. In fact it recommended a reduction on wait lists.

There's tons? What made you think there wasn't evidence for trans healthcare.

Did you not read the thread before posting on it?

Unfortunately google doesn't throw up anything resembling the thing you type into it these days.

Perhaps link to some on here?

This took less than a minute to find:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41299810/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41299810/

I'm not reading 10 pages of misinformation, no.

Especially if you deny the existence of evidence of its benefits.

There is no right or wrong way to live in a male body.
I completely agree. I know I’m male but I’ve made these changes because they make me more comfortable in my male body. Is this a wrong way for me to live?

The Levy review is here.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/review-of-adult-gender-dysphoria-services/

Doesn't really compare outcomes of different treatments. Guess why not - accoriding to the Levy review's key findings:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/operational-and-delivery-review-of-nhs-adult-gender-dysphoria-clinics-in-england/#key-findings

Quality (including safety)

The absence of any patient outcomes data, alongside limited and inconsistent quality data reporting, and minimal clinical audit makes it impossible to properly understand patient outcomes and the safety of these services. These gaps place these clinics outside standard NHS quality assurance expectations.

In addition, existing patient demographic data and clinic feedback indicate that there has been a shift in patient demographics in recent years to a younger cohort with reported additional conditions. Yet, this has not always been met with corresponding changes in how some clinics identify and address patients’ potential additional biopsychosocial needs.

You’re free to see it that way, but medical science and psychiatry see a distinction between the conditions

I don't think these male people quite realise what their own statements reveal.

Or what their lack of statements reveal

Do you think a woman can only look one way? Can a woman have a penis?

No. But they are similar enough for them to be treated in the same way.

Both are not based on any biological marker but only on a person's belief about themselves.

Just denying that you don't think they are not similar enough to compare as far as treatments are concerned doesn't mean that they are not. You expect a treatment to provide extreme body modifications so that you feel that you appear as you wish to appear to relieve your distress. That is the same outcome desired by anyone else who suffers severe mental distress because their body does not match how they wish to appear.

Response rate was 55% with 48 total participants. There was significant postoperative improvement in mental health outcomes as measured by the Patient Health Questionnaire-9 (PHQ-9) and General Anxiety Disorder-7 (GAD-7) scales. The Gender Congruence and Life Satisfaction Scale (GCLS) scores as well as the BODY-Q Body Image, Social Function, and Satisfaction with Decision scales all significantly improved postoperatively compared to preoperatively. Patient-Reported Outcomes Measurement Information System (PROMIS) Pain scales demonstrated worsened pain at 3-months postoperatively but returned to preoperative levels at 12-months postoperatively. PROMIS Sexual Function scales also improved postoperatively compared to preoperatively. Minor complications did not worsen 12-month patient-reported outcomes. Major complications and mental health diagnoses were associated with worse patient-reported outcomes across a variety of scales

So presumably:

87 people had vaginoplasty. 45% did not respond so no idea why. Still on the doctors register? Taken off? Detransitioned? Not with us any more? What? You cannot just pretend that this is not significant.

Out of the 48 that did respond; the pain was no worse than pre op at 12 months. How can the pain be no worse, there was surely no pain before they removed the penis, this is a ludicrous claim to make? The hole created never heals. In 12 Months?

Sexual function scales - what does this even mean? You cannot compare the function of a penis that is no more with the function of a 'surgically created hole' sexually.

But 'Major complications and mental health diagnoses were associated with worse patient-reported outcomes across a variety of scales' so we will just gloss over this and pretend all is well?

Why is it medically necessary to undergo extreme body modifications to make a body fit a personal belief, and one that is also supported only by a philosophical belief that that patient holds about themselves that doesn't reflect material reality?

I think lots of people think the existence of a study is meaningful in itself and look no further.

I don't believe that body dysmorphia only comes from society and its expectations. I could think of quite a few other reasons for it.

Please link up the evidence that body dysmorphia is solely based on societal expectations. Otherwise, I think we can assume this is an empty dismissal.

Just denying that you don't think they are not similar enough to compare as far as treatments are concerned doesn't mean that they are not
Hah the irony. Do you think psychiatry has got it wrong and both treatments should be treated the same way? What evidence do you have that they are the same condition?

Yes, and to the same extent, gender dysphoria comes from society’s expectations of what a woman should look like.

Because of a condition called Gender Incongruence (often called gender dysphoria).

We have no idea what causes it, but we know it's real and what the treatment is.