GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

[DownhillTeaTray]

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Interesting discussion on Reddit from ptd and another TRA lawyer, it seems like some self awareness is dawning (not that much though). Check out the OP’s response to someone saying they will “pee for protest”

So after your paranoid spiel you actually agree with me 😂 You know the part where I said challenge this at court and join a union? 🙄

You are being naive, you don’t need to take a “protest piss” and set more bad precedent. Nothing changes until you’re told it has and when you are, raise a grievance - in writing, after speaking with an advice agency. Push back EVERY SINGLE TIME…but do it with a brain in your head or you’ll fuck it up for the rest of us.

Streams of news articles of more perverted trans women sexually harassing our poor womenfolk will not have the long term effect we want. We need allies and public support. We need to be normal people being discriminated against unfairly and unlawfully, THAT is what helps our cause. Your shortsightedness fucks us all over

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/fRe8B2v1e5

I fear expecting other TRAs not to do these things is somewhat optimistic.

https://knowingius.org/p/disinformation-and-the-good-law-project?publication_id=2711221&post_id=187996816&isFreemail=true&r=4p2qy&triedRedirect=true

Thanks. I was just coming here to share Foran's post about GLP's disinformation campaign.

If they were capable of that, they would not have arrived at this place. There is nothing for us to fear there.

From that same thread:

And there’s something interesting: we have a disproportionate number of over-achievers.

Addressing the person who wrote that: I don't think this word means what you think it means.

99% of these men’s responses to this latest defeat are “I’ll show them, I’ll do what I like”.

This is interesting too.

PTD is quoting from the GLP’s crowdfunder page. The responses suggest they’re likely to reluctantly stick with GLP in the absence of a better alternative.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1r4wm76/help_appeal_the_high_courts_judgment_on_trans/

We as a community need to be smart, don’t engage with the terfs they can’t be reasoned with

That’s an interesting way of acknowledging that all their arguments are shite (as so nicely elucidated in the Swift judgement).

I fear I’m starting to notice a pattern…

I wonder if it’s a pattern that includes the Kemp judgement. Perhaps they all have the same “judicial colleague”, I think it was, whoever that might be.

Men really hate being told ‘no’. It’s one way we know they’re men.

Michael Foran said one of the EHRC’s interim guidance is: (ix) If you provide single-sex lavatories do not fail to make provision for transsexual persons.

So, is this saying that, alongside men’s and women’s, service providers have to have a mixed sex? If so, is this what’s been holding up finalising EHRC guidance because it would mean adding a third toilet?

Push back EVERY SINGLE TIME…but do it with a brain in your head or you’ll fuck it up for the rest of us.

Good luck if you're pinning your hopes on this! That would require engaging with the issues...

From M Foran's summary yesterday
This reflects a general point I have made elsewhere that the GRA altered the previous state of the law by tying gender recognition to the process of obtaining a GRC and limiting its scope by reference to the provisions in the Act. Prior to the GRA, medical intervention conferred legal status. That is no longer the case in UK law.

I dont think I knew that! Interesting.

Yes, it was something of a lightbulb moment for me, too.

And I never tire of raising it, either 😁

It's only ever about access to the women, it's never about the room. The room is literally that, just a space. It requires the presence of women and girls to make it a validating space. It is they who are the resource, the prop. They who are being used.

Which is why when a bloody judge raises the concept of it, with zero awareness of what he's actually doing, it infuriates me.

The entire concept of allowing these men access to women's spaces is wholly based on the assumption that the women are the provision, not the space. But it's so commonplace, so normalised, he doesn't even notice it.

There's a reason these men don't want a mixed space. The women in a mixed space are not providing any validation that the transwomen are women, because men can use it too.

Ah yes. Transactivism went so well when it was being argued by a few, careful activists who controlled all the discussion! 😂

With the likes of Whittle and Burns at the helm and later, Morton, they ensured that the nature of many of the men they were arguing should be given access to women was carefully obscured.

The whole concept had to be rolled into place before even those men knew, because as soon as they revealed themselves, it was inevitable the whole thing would fall apart.

Legal question: Given that the GLP are continuing to raise money based on a misrepresentation of the judgement, could they be accused of fraud?

Yet there was this

Sanitary conveniences
20.—(1) Suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided at readily accessible places.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless—
(a)...
(b)...
(c)separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside.

PART IINUMBER OF SANITARY CONVENIENCES
4. In workplaces where females work, there shall be at least one suitable water closet for use by females only for every 25 females.

5. In workplaces where males work, there shall be at least one suitable water closet for use by males only for every 25 males.

6. In calculating the number of males or females who work in any workplace for the purposes of this Part of this Schedule, any number not itself divisible by 25 without fraction or remainder shall be treated as the next number higher than it which is so divisible.

And somehow prior Judges took that legislation added in other legislation and ended up with male = woman/female therefore allow some men in.

Then Stonewall et al ramped it up

The government plus government departments etc etc who had access to the laws and had an obligation to follow them all ignored the fact The Reg Existed and went with male = woman/female too.

The Brighton school is claiming they have proper legal advice to allow them to ignore the school legislation which obliges single sex space for teens. Then any Body contacted went with Errrr we think its legal to force a 13 girl to get half naked with a 13 year old boy because a boy wants to be there
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5488835-to-ask-for-parents-in-brighton-who-would-object-to-males-being-in-their-daughter-changing-room-without-even-their-knowledge-to-come-forward-and-help-with-this-legal-case?reply=150445716

If the Reg stands on its own how can the judge include a section which theorised it is ever possible to have any kind of male in the female block ever and/or when a male block is provided?

Summary : Why is the computer saying maybe?

(Thanks for the link off to read it)

I wonder if the trans Reddit lot even know about Maugham killing the fox with his baseball bat.

Of course they wouldn’t be bothered about him doing it while wearing his wife’s kimono. But still.

That is still such a horrible image. Why would he do such a thing? Poor innocent fox being battered to death. It’s barbaric. And why would he post about it? That’s just unimaginable.

I wonder if he’s starting to panic now. He must know he’s losing credibility with his main target audience, not to mention his kids.

Maybe he’ll go non binary next.

I promise not to rant (here) about museums and galleries who plan their displays and labels on the assumption that 'average height of visitors' is 5'9", and that moreover 'average' and 'usual' are the same thing, but I've done it before and suspect I'll have to do it again.

Sorry about the non-metric measurement, I'm sure most of you know.

The crowdfunder is going well...

£28,517 raised
Fundraising goal: £150,000

Well, if they want to spend their money on campaigning, better it gets wasted on something that’s not going to work.

What is he saying needs appealing?

From the Reddit thread.

^Same! I skimmed those earlier sections - it’s paragraph 15 -17 if anyone wants to look.
Mortified and to be honest I’m so angry at them. I get they’re trying but seriously??
A level law students wouldn’t balls it up this bad and Jolyon is a KC! Is he outsourcing this or is it too close for him to use his head?^

I do think JM may be running out of road.