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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

1000 replies

DownhillTeaTray · 12/02/2026 14:44

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Jolyon Maugham KC (@goodlawproject.org)

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 13:31

Most of the the list of 'protected characteristics' don't need separate toilet facilities, so men's toilets and women's toilets which include cubicles for ambulant disabled people + accessible toilets for disabled people who need them should suffice.

There is another PC that does - Age. Babies and young children. Changing facilities are often considered something for adults but it is the children who are the ones who actually need then. Toilets are also rarely suitable for very young children - much too high and they often have to put their hands on the very unsanitary seat to stabilise themselves. No foot support though that aids optimum evacuation of bowels. And sinks are too high - unless designed for wheelchairs - and water too hot. And hand driers terrifying.

Young children seem to be overlooked.

MinervaBoudicca · 15/02/2026 13:33

I wonder how the KCs who represented the GLP in court feel about the misinformation about the judgment that is currently being published by the GLP?

  • Daniel Stilitz KC
  • Alex Goodman KC
  • Jane Russell KC
FlockOfGoose · 15/02/2026 13:42

DownhillTeaTray · 14/02/2026 16:35

Looks like the GLP have managed to get Sandy Kemp's arse smacked. Ha ha.

(My bold below):

Protect-the-dollz
2h ago

Really badly for us.

Afaik Darlington Nurses are not appealing, so not really relevant.

But the reasoning in Peggie was grounded on Croft which this judgement finds, at para 50, to no longer be law post FWS.

Peggie also assumed that FWS vould not have intended a blanket ban on trans people accessing single sex spaces. GLP confirms exactly the opposite.

In Kelly, the decison which was most in our favour, the tribunal found that the meaning of male and female under the work regs could be trans inclusive. GLP found the opposite.

It's going to have considerable negative repercussions.



Scipling
2h ago

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell as a laywoman, the impact on the workplace is severe. There really doesn’t seem to be any way to interpret it as anything other than awful.

It may be possible to appeal - I personally don’t have the background to understand whether or not an appeal is realistic. I also have no idea how long the appeals process takes.

I also don’t know how quickly this is likely to be applied in the real world. I don’t know if employers are expected to act immediately, wait for EHRC guidance, try to work out exactly what does and doesn’t count as a workplace in public facilities etc.

With all of this nonsense, to me it essentially appears to come down to this:
Unless something major changes such as a successful appeal or legislation, domestic remedies are simply not going to happen. This means that our current hope is Dr McCloud’s case filed with the ECtHR. It’s just about possible that politicians may try to fix some of this if the case is accepted and communicated, but most likely we will have to wait for a ruling. The timescale for this is glacial unless the ECtHR issues a pilot judgment of some sort, or a rule 39 application is successful (unlikely)

Or to put it bluntly, this crap is going to continue for years unless our government suddenly decides to respect human rights.

There is a strong possibility that the next general election will come before the ECtHR do anything useful, and Labour are unlikely to win unless they start making major changes fast. Depending on which bunch of extreme right lunatics get voted in, they may try to exit the ECHR, but I doubt that will be quick or easy.
The only other possibility I can see is that the CoM decides that we are in breach of Goodwin, and reopens compliance monitoring. If they do, that won’t force a quick fix but it might just be enough to increase pressure to the point where the government decide that fixing it is easier than fighting it.

However, I doubt see a slight silver lining - and I’d like to know if I’m right or not - it appears that we are in a slightly better position outside of the workplace because trans inclusion is possible. And because it’s possible, the cheapest solution for an organisation is inclusion because essentially they don’t have to change anything.


Protect-the-dollz
1h ago

"Unfortunately, as far as I can tell as a laywoman, the impact on the workplace is severe. There really doesn’t seem to be any way to interpret it as anything other than awful."

Yes. That is my view.

"It may be possible to appeal - I personally don’t have the background to understand whether or not an appeal is realistic. I also have no idea how long the appeals process takes."

Appeals are only possible on points of law. Happily the entire JR is points of law. Sonitbis appealable. Whether the appeal will be successful? Impossible to say.

The judgement doesn't contain any fundamental technical errors. No cases quoted out of context or test of interpretation ignored so GLP will effectively be restating their case and hoping the upper courts agree.

Timewise- 6 months would be fast, 9-12 more usual.

"I also don’t know how quickly this is likely to be applied in the real world"

It should be immediate because the law is binding even without the guidance, so by confirming the guidance is an accurate reflection of the law, it has effectively been brought in by the back door.

In theory, one could go out and sue on Monday over not complying with the clarified law.

"With all of this nonsense, to me it essentially appears to come down to this:"

Your analysis hereafter is spot on imo.

Two very minor points.

There was an attempt last year to reopen Goodwin. I think at this point we can conclude it failed. The Secretafiat are required within a strict time limit to advise the CoM in their regular meetings of correspondence received unless it pertains to a matter with manifestly no hope of success.

We are well past the deadline and there has been no mention of the request in the CoE minutes. I think that avenue is closed to us.

2. The inclusion is only permitted where either there is no single sex spaces at all or where there is also a true single sex space as an alternative.
Ie to include trans women in a space with cis women, but not men, you also need a separate place for just cis women.

It is something, but it's much more restricted than people are realising.

The OP deleted the post but the comments under it are fascinating to read, I think it's finally sinking in for some of them the implications of the FWS judgement and this one.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 13:54

FlockOfGoose · 15/02/2026 13:42

The OP deleted the post but the comments under it are fascinating to read, I think it's finally sinking in for some of them the implications of the FWS judgement and this one.

Edited

I read that “as a laywoman” yesterday and all I could think of was Little Britain. “We’re laywomen you know”.

Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 13:55

I saw GDPR mentioned in those replies re office gossip. GDPR only concerns recorded information, not spoken even if what was said is a breach of confidentiality.

Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 13:57

There also seemed several replies who think the statutory guidance is not just guidance about the law but takes precedence over it. That seems to be a widespread ‘misunderstanding’.

Keeptoiletssafe · 15/02/2026 14:30

Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 13:31

Most of the the list of 'protected characteristics' don't need separate toilet facilities, so men's toilets and women's toilets which include cubicles for ambulant disabled people + accessible toilets for disabled people who need them should suffice.

There is another PC that does - Age. Babies and young children. Changing facilities are often considered something for adults but it is the children who are the ones who actually need then. Toilets are also rarely suitable for very young children - much too high and they often have to put their hands on the very unsanitary seat to stabilise themselves. No foot support though that aids optimum evacuation of bowels. And sinks are too high - unless designed for wheelchairs - and water too hot. And hand driers terrifying.

Young children seem to be overlooked.

Yes and the judge in the GLP case rightly dismissed the ‘what about opposite sex children’ farce.

DownhillTeaTray · 15/02/2026 14:35

Brainworm · 15/02/2026 11:59

I heard that they had raised over £28k in the first day - so 20%. Maybe I misunderstood or perhaps the first 24hrs need to generate a larger percentage to be successful? I’m not up on crowd funding!

They've raised just under £24,000. And yes, you'd expect that a lot would be raised quite early.

But over the weekend, and the next few weeks, the reality of what the GLP has been up to, and how badly it has failed at law, will sink in, and I suspect they will get nowhere near their £100,000 target. And I suspect they are actually hoping to raise more than that.

The glory days of just after the SC FWS judgement are over, for the Grift Law Project. Law of diminishing returns.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 14:47

Expect a social media onslaught by them to try and get control of the narrative.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 15/02/2026 14:49

Just think: if we had a functioning government that believed in the law and in women's equality, we might have a minister who'd actually take a microphone and do some straight forward explaining and Q&A to the media to address this misinformation that Starmer claims to be all bothered about.

theilltemperedamateur · 15/02/2026 15:20

I love that the unnervingly sensible PTD has the expression "true single-sex space" in his lexicon. Isn't that fearfully transphobic?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:35

I expect BBC Verify are on the case and just putting their finishing touches to their expose of the Good Law Project.

Veilsofmorning · 15/02/2026 15:37

MarieDeGournay · 15/02/2026 11:38

On the topic of spaces for disabled people: this from the judgement made me absolutely furious - which is unusual for me, it has to be something really really bad to make me that angry.

73 ..One point raised was that the unisex provision is often labelled “accessible” or “disabled”. That is a current common practice, but it is not a practice that is invariable or need continue. There is no reason why, if only as a matter of sensible accommodation, the labelling could not change.

The the ignorance of the law, and the disregard for disabled people is shocking.
It's not that 'unisex provision is often labelled labelled “accessible” or “disabled”, the opposite is the case: adapted toilets that disabled people campaigned for for decades and which are required under the EA2010 and building regs are being incorrectly re-labelled as 'unisex' .

[Disabled toilets are mixed sex, but that is so that carers of the opposite sex could accompany the disabled user if necessary, e.g. a husband who is the carer for a wife, a mother for an adult son etc. It was never intended that they should be for anybody other than disabled people who need them. Special cubicles for 'ambulant' disabled people who do not need an accessible adapted toilet are provided within single-sex toilets.]

It is not just a 'current common practice', Judge Swift, it is a requirement - both the EA2010 and building regs say that accessible toilets must be provided and signage must be clear. Has the judge seen Approved Document M - Access to and use of buildings: Volume 1 - Dwellings (2015 edition incorporating 2016 amendments)?

It bloody well is 'a practice that is invariable or need continue', not just because it provides for people who actually NEED designated accessible spaces, not people who prefer to use them, but because it is The Law!

I worry about any disability discrimination case that is brought before Judge Swift, unless he undergoes extensive training on disability rights first. Maybe he could start by reading Doc M.

This! And really shocking that a judge should be so ignorant.

WallaceinAnderland · 15/02/2026 15:39

It's only ever about access to the women, it's never about the room. The room is literally that, just a space. It requires the presence of women and girls to make it a validating space. It is they who are the resource, the prop. They who are being used.

Yes, if there were two identical toilets right next door to each other and both labelled for women, but one was entirely empty and the other was busy with many women, the TRA would choose the busy one. They don't want a room that's not used by women, even if it's labelled for women. They need the actual women to be there as props. Whether that is to fulfil a sexual fetish, to feel accepted to harass and intimidate or for an opportunity to assault, will depend on the individual but what it is absolutely is not, is just a place to pee.

MarieDeGournay · 15/02/2026 15:46

WallaceinAnderland · 15/02/2026 15:39

It's only ever about access to the women, it's never about the room. The room is literally that, just a space. It requires the presence of women and girls to make it a validating space. It is they who are the resource, the prop. They who are being used.

Yes, if there were two identical toilets right next door to each other and both labelled for women, but one was entirely empty and the other was busy with many women, the TRA would choose the busy one. They don't want a room that's not used by women, even if it's labelled for women. They need the actual women to be there as props. Whether that is to fulfil a sexual fetish, to feel accepted to harass and intimidate or for an opportunity to assault, will depend on the individual but what it is absolutely is not, is just a place to pee.

....and yet it is suggested that everywhere there are single sex toilets, there should also be mixed sex ones in case a passing transwoman is made to feel uncomfortable by having to use the toilet designated for his sex.

Experience tells us the transwoman won't actually use the mixed sex toilet, he'll head for the women's instead, but let's require the provision of mixed sex ones regardless ..😒

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:47

If there are ever “TERF toilets” set up, you can be sure these men will be clamouring to get in them.

SerendipityJane · 15/02/2026 15:49

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 12:33

I think she means that TRAs see it like racial segregation for eg in the US, ie completely unjustifiable and morally wrong.

and that it's "interesting" that such a tactic is in play. Because it suggests that the brains - a word I use quite incorrectly - behind this are US based.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:52

Ah sorry I didn’t pick up on that aspect. I think a lot of the rhetoric is US based.

WallaceinAnderland · 15/02/2026 15:53

I think she means that TRAs see it like racial segregation

That argument doesn't stand up either. Women don't want any men in their female only single sex spaces - black men, Christian men, disabled men, old men, trans identifying men... that is not discriminatory in any way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:53

I know some UK regions use “bathroom” to mean toilet, but I think that generally when TRAs use it they are parroting American slogans.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:55

WallaceinAnderland · 15/02/2026 15:53

I think she means that TRAs see it like racial segregation

That argument doesn't stand up either. Women don't want any men in their female only single sex spaces - black men, Christian men, disabled men, old men, trans identifying men... that is not discriminatory in any way.

It doesn’t stand up, no. But they think it does, because they think (or they like to role play in their heads) that they are equal to the black people fighting for equal rights to white people.

Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 15:56

DownhillTeaTray · 15/02/2026 14:35

They've raised just under £24,000. And yes, you'd expect that a lot would be raised quite early.

But over the weekend, and the next few weeks, the reality of what the GLP has been up to, and how badly it has failed at law, will sink in, and I suspect they will get nowhere near their £100,000 target. And I suspect they are actually hoping to raise more than that.

The glory days of just after the SC FWS judgement are over, for the Grift Law Project. Law of diminishing returns.

£24k won’t pay Jolyon’s salary for long,..

Rainingrain · 15/02/2026 16:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2026 15:55

It doesn’t stand up, no. But they think it does, because they think (or they like to role play in their heads) that they are equal to the black people fighting for equal rights to white people.

But surely the logic of that can only be mixed sex spaces for all? Mixed sex spaces seem to be their second choice spite option - if they can’t destroy female single sex spaces by entering them then they should be destroyed so all men can.

WallaceinAnderland · 15/02/2026 16:03

It's only in the last few days that I've actually heard them talk seriously about the possible need for third spaces. If they can't have the women's then they want their own, separate to the men's.

They could have been campaigning for this all along and women would probably have supported them. Now they're on their own with dwindling suport.

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