is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

This.

He is. Not they are

From Nick Wallace:

AO yes but he's still a man. he just has that protected char - and in that sense they are different. A man who is black has a partic racial char a man who is 60 has an age characteristic, but they're still both men.

I don't see why everyone else doesn't understand this.

Gotta make sure all the prison officers are also TWs, so as to avoid any potential problems around strip-searching :)

I’m sure we thought that about Sandie Peggie and look how that went. 😭

It would make perfect sense. Could have specialist prison officers and specialist medics. Could even have some Dr Az Hakeem-type group therapies where the post-surgery men warn the pre-surgery men that it is not a panacea.

I know. Why does everyone seem to think gender reassignment changes their sex?!

Was that not the crux of one prior judgement?

Judge did agree that any single male had a higher risk factor just by being male to any single female but that could be ignored when the State was placed in the role of decision maker.

Natch.

Indeed...

Does anyone know if the stream is likely to be available to watch later? I missed the first morning session and won’t be able to watch it all tomorrow either.

They don’t care about that. Obviously they would prefer to be around women especially if they think it is a more pleasant environment. But mostly it is about the games they can play and the control it gives them. Why do you think Randle McMurphy wanted to move to the mental institution? He didn’t believe he was ill.

Headed by Nurse Ratched?

That does indeed look humane. (From the outside at any rate. Who knows what the reality might be.) I wonder if Thistle is the tough unit, where the hard cases go. I'd be hoping that the Sorting Hat gave me Begonia.

100% this would be true. These men have zero interest in being incarcerated with other TIMs.

They just want access to their prey: women.

I hear you.

But then what next? Gay men have their own estate? Elderly men? Why does this protected characteristic get special treatment?

It just continues to buy into the 'sacred caste' idea that these men are somehow intrinsically a separate group from other men. The Judge said today 'but they aren't men'. 🙄

No, they are men. They are men with a characteristic protected by law, but still men.

No. It is so you can observe live proceedings. No recording is allowed by anyone.

True!

I wonder if she thinks that the victims the rapists raped think they were men or not. Why is the criminal's opinion more important than the finding of the state that they're a man who's committed rape or indeed their victims.

This is so enraging.

Ultimately trans ideology is coercive control on a grand level - change the meaning of words such that you confuse, create fear, obligation, guilt. It's beyond depressing that this works on so many judges.

Many women in prison are very vulnerable, and as such may well be able to be coerced into some kind of pseudo relationship with men who claim to be women whilst incarcerated. As such, it’s not beyond one’s imagination to understand why they may well have a positive view on men being housed in the women’s prison estate.

No he isn’t. The judge has mentioned it, but O’Neil isn’t biting as such. He commented along the lines of ‘we are not arguing about taking certain women OUT of female prisons, but of putting certain males IN female prisons’ there is no comparison.