is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

Yup.

Look at the example of Lennon/Katie Dolatowski. Offended against little girls; remanded in a women's prison; discharged to a women's shelter which also housed children.

Later lied about his background and was allowed into a women's shelter in England. (Leeds, possibly?)

At the time, it was suggested that people might not have known that Lennon/Katie was trans. Believe you me - if you've seen the real Dolatowski rather than the filtered image that the papers carried when he was first convicted, there's no mistaking the fact that he's a man.

In the article below, D's FB picture is at the top. The real D is pictured towards the bottom. (The preview photo which shows here is nothing like D's real image.)

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/courts/3891445/katie-dolatowski-womens-aid-shelter/

The very term "transwoman" enrages me now.

I was out with some friends lately and raised the Darlington Nurses victory. They both said they felt sorry for the HR depatment because it "was so complicated". I said it wasn't the least bit complicated. They intimated I was rather an extremist and transwomen may not be women but they certainly aren't men.

I pointed out 'Rose' took no hormones, had no surgery, went to work with stubble, wore boxer shorts and was trying for a baby with his wife. How much more male can you be than trying to father a child?

They were honestly shocked. They thought "transwoman" meant hormones, surgery to remove the penis, and everyone looking like Bruce Jenner or that actor from Orange Is The New Black, not a bloke with his meat and two veg wearing a blouse on Wednesdays.

and everyone looking like Bruce Jenner

Bruce Jenner with filters and airbrushing…

I've stopped using it. It is a deceptive term that clouds the truth.

Quite! Filters are doing a LOT of work.

That is so true. I hadn't even properly considered the entire change of dynamics of women trying to get close to the TIM via a form of coercive control.

The risks involved are huge.

I'm raging tbh.

Utterly agree.

No more. We need to take our words back.

I think we saw some of those complicated dynamics at work among staff in the Peggie tribunal, involving women one wouldn’t normally identify as vulnerable but who were clearly effectively controlled by the TIM.

I’ve unfortunately met the lovely Katie. There’s absolutely no mistaking 6’5 Katie is a man. And even the most ardent TWAW! defender would not leave their kids left alone in any space with him for a nanosecond.

There's also the fact that Dr Maycock was employed as a Learning and Development Researcher with the Scottish Prison Service for their SPS College while he was doing this research.

Not sure how overtly critical women incarcerated in a prison operated by the SPS could be of SPS policy, while being interviewed by a SPS employee.

The old HR trick please tell us what we are doing wrong and pin a target on your back if we dont get the answer we want🙄

And the champions of the stripshow contract term had their own changing area or non-front line jobs so no specific obligation to follow those infection control.

Transgender ideology is coercive control and because it's backed up by institutions, lots of people fall for it. It can be very, very subtle at first. You can see even highly intelligent people falling for the emotional and linguistic manipulation. However, in the prison service this should be nothing new. They must routinely have prisoners claiming their innocence and pulling all kind of scams and grifts. They somehow seem to resist murderers and rapists self-Iding as children to get out of adult responsibility, or as innocent despite the evidence against them.

I'm happy to forgive those who were not in positions of power and subject to coercion themselves once they wake up, obey the law and stop abusing women. Those who were in positions of power and paid to make difficult decisions such as those making decisions about where violent rapists are held in prison. Nope, they're literally offering up vulnerable women to be abused. I won't be happy until there's criminal accountability. Because even the fact that men are in a 'women's' prison and the women inmates are coerced into calling these men women is emotional abuse. Both on the part of the man and on the part of the prison service.

The people putting men in women's prisons are paid enough and should be competent enough to resist coercion by proven abusers. If they can't do that then they're shit at their job and at the very least should be fired and get someone in who can follow the law and at least make an attempt to uphold women prisoners' human rights.

It's a common theme isn't it? Please can women's services be run by people who are interested in and care about women, and see them as the brief. As enough of a brief. Instead of just a canvas on which to paint their much more fascinating and motivating men clients.

Bruce Jenner, even with all his money cannot pay someone to make him look like a convincing woman.

Even with airbrushing and filters, still looks like a man.

Same. They are men so we should call them that.

This is why I said women who are able to speak freely. No woman is prison is able to speak freely regardless of assurances of anonymity. And we have been told that women who complained about men in prison with them were punished.

I remember seeing that magazine cover and thinking that it was a picture of a very old woman wearing a corset and that they'd used a filter.

From the Times.

www.thetimes.com/article/efddcba8-561b-4b0b-b101-fe5a003a6e20?shareToken=171268d8da372e135d8ae39601d757f5

Britain’s equalities regulator has rubbished SNP ministers’ claim that a ban on biological men in female prisons would breach the human rights of transgender inmates, it has emerged.

In a written submission to a case brought by the campaign group For Women Scotland (FWS), the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) warned that if biological men were permitted to serve time in female jails, then prisons would no longer be a “single-sex” service.

if it wished, the Scottish government could respect both the rights of women and trans prisoners by creating “bespoke arrangements”, likely trans-only wings, where the rights of both groups would be upheld.

I hope the proposed trans-only wing are in the appropriately sexed jail. We know from England that men in a wing for men who identify as trans in a women’s prison mixed with women.

Also in the Times, don't think it'sbeen shared yet:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/a483a2a3-9b21-46d3-b5ac-b4805a4b8f3f?shareToken=ff12f05c82cb942ac108345f7a4f3839

I was there yesterday and Mr O’Neil is excellent imo. He was direct, and firm, not doing “ my lady” bit every time he spoke, watching today will be interesting as it’s now the SNP AKA Scottish government’s chance to explain their thinking of why men should be in women’s prisons…😡

Oh that's easy.

Cos men saaaaad
Respect da menzzzz
Case by case bananarama bullshit nutjobbery
The SCJ doesn't count because it's warming Phillipson's arse and will be for the rest of the millenia
Women don't mind! Well the good ones who count don't mind! They like being harassed, assaulted, terrified and raped! The silly ones who moan don't mind it really
A good woman is an NPC in a man's life!
And pooooooooooooooooooooor menz
Here, have a lot of emotive anecdotes from men with very serious personality, social and misogyny problems!
Case closed your honour.

I think Mr O’Neill is just Totally fed up with Explaining Reality to Fuckwits , although Lady Ross is definitely not thick…the Scottish government are

On a side note, the submission from the EHRC is quite heartening, in view of the change of Chair.