is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

Thank you and thanks to @OhBuggerandArse . I'm in now!

The idea that women in prison are going to be terrified of a TIF and more than happy to be accommodated with a TIM is utterly ridiculous.

Judge sounding slightly testy now trying to get to the bottom of the argument about transmen.

I think it's a fair point actually - doesn't make sense to me to make a strong claim about the nature of a group - women - and then exclude trans identifying women from it even in extremis.

That is a surprisingly good article from the BBC, very clear.

Indeed

I agree. His point that it's a management issue is true. But I don't think it should be argued that a TIF could be lawfully placed in the male estate.

I don't agree with AO'N! If men and women have to be kept in separate accommodation, how could it ever be lawful for a management decision be made to place a transman in the male estate? On team judge here I think. But I'm not sure why he's going there - I would have thought it wasn't needed to make his broader point.

Jinks

It's the same thing that came out in FWS supreme court. TIFs can be excluded from male SS spaces for privacy /dignity of men and the safety of the TIF. TIFs can also be excluded from female SS spaces if the nature of their body mods makes them "pass" and therefore cause distress to women.

Yes, but it doesn't therefore follow that they can lawfully be placed in male SS spaces.

Absolutely.

It's really dangerous ground to skate over this, especially given the recent case in the secure mental health sector.

Jo Phoenix evidence from Darlington being used again. 😀

Women don't commit the same types of offences and get shorter sentences for that reason.

This highlights the insanity and utter cruelty of this ideology.

The idea that there is a degree of passing that permits one man access to the female estate but denies another man is nonsense and cruel. It would be far better to never lie to these men by pretending that we think they are actually women.

The Scottish government meanwhile argues that the Equality Act was designed to give people a basis on which to make a claim of discrimination.
Its written arguments state that the Act "does not mandate sex segregation", and "does not absolutely prohibit deviation from any norm".

And the whole mixed sex always unless proven valid reason for single sex goes whoooosh then look a squirrel when TIFs are in play.

If women will not be placed in mens prisons due to 1on1 prison violence (rape) risk why is the SPS saying SSS with some of the other sex is allowed under the EA10

FFS…. What if the only measure to reduce suicide ideation in an individual is to release them from prison?!!! What a stupid fucking example to use, the poor man will attempt or threaten suicide if we don’t submit to his demands.

J - What if the only thing to manage a man threatening suicide is to place them in the female estate?

Yes we should definitely put policies in place based on people who threaten suicide to get what they want... 🤬

I was going to ask what if someone thought they were a monkey and became suicidal if they weren't placed in a zoo?

The Scottish government meanwhile argues that the Equality Act was designed to give people a basis on which to make a claim of discrimination.

Is that another version of ‘men in female changing rooms are fine, and anyway you can call the police if he attacks you’?

What if they threaten suicide if they aren't given a 60" TV and a playstation, a big bag of weed and a phone?

If ever you need evidence that this is a sacred caste...

still not positive about this judge. anyone know if there are options beyond a judicial review?

Supreme court

...and foie gras at lunch with the governor every Wednesday.

Again ‘passing’ is language used to hide:

”trans women who pass should be allowed access to the female estate”

should be written as

”men who deceive others should be allowed access to women.