"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 9

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov
Thread 6, 04-Nov to 05-Nov
Thread 7, 05-Nov to 11-Nov
Thread 8, 11-Nov to 16-Jan (last thread with the schedule and abbreviations)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital filed a legal case against their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses objected to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing was held between 20th October and 11th November and was live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have comprehensive information regarding this case on their substack, including archives of the twitter threads, lists of people involved and press releases.

At the time this thread was started, the judgment had not yet been published on the Courts website but was widely reported in the media that the NHS was found to have discriminated against the nurses, but the claims against Rose were not upheld.

Fiona Macdonald is suing PCS (you can Google her case) and Sandie Peggie is suing the RCN, but there really needs to be a case brought against Unison.

Like with failing socialist states we seem to be ending up with a nomenklatura. A bureaucratic class which forms a power elite within our government, civil service and public sector including unions. Their interest is not the working class they claim to serve but preserving their own power. What better way to ensure ordinary women know their place than by humiliating them in changing rooms. Or calling out academics for wrong speech, etc.

The NHS in particular does not seem to care about the people at the coal face. Those working nights in A&E on Christmas eve. Its not just the trans issue. Ordinary workers don't count, even consultants are thought of in terms of numbers. No wonder productivity is falling.

Until our nomenklatura starts valuing the dedicated people who contribute to our society, things will get worse.

If the employer's policies are reasonable and lawful, and their enforcement of those policies is robust, that's all that's needed from a legal viewpoint, I think.

I think that has to be the point.

If the changing rooms are for women, then transwomen may not use them. That is all that matters.

If a transwoman is a kind, nice, considerate man that still does not mean he can use the women’s changing rooms. Neither may he if he looks very pretty and quite feminine, as that still does not make any difference: he is a man and men are not allowed.

I agree, it’s just a case of convincing people that men are not allowed in women’s spaces. No small matter!

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/25774775.employers-told-look-single-sex-space-policies/?ref=cprfa

This comment is infuriating:

An NHS spokesman said: “We are working through the implications of the Supreme Court ruling, and we absolutely recognise the need for revised guidance on same-sex accommodation as soon as possible.
“It’s important that we wait for the Equality and Human Rights Commission to publish its statutory guidance following the Supreme Court’s judgment before final decisions about future policy are taken – but we are working closely with Government to ensure we can provide updated guidance for the health service as soon as possible.”

They are still working through the implications of the SC judgement, coming up to a year later 🤔 This judgement should be a wake up call that their policy is unlawful, but they still have to wait for the EHRC code of practice, which Bridget Phillipson is refusing to lay before parliament.

Is the Faye Caldicott case NHS as well? I think that's due to be heard soon.

Yes it is and she is still a long way short of her target. I've just celebrated the Darlington judgement with some carrots for Faye. Just thought I'd mention it as others might be able/willing to do the same.

Thanks. Just found her page online.

Re the walking down the dark quiet road analogy I think Roses behaviour is akin to a man walking down one side of the street, a lone woman walking in the opposite direction on the other side of the street. And just when they’re reaching the same point the man crosses the road to be on the same side as the woman. Most women would feel increasingly threatened by that action irrespective of the intentions of the man. Decent men recognise that and wouldn’t cross the road at that point.

@Forester1 yes, I wholeheartedly agree. That being said, not being decent (and Henderson certainly hasn't been, unlike the other TIM mentioned in passing in the judgment who never entered the changing room) is not a punishable offence and would not necessarily be harassment.

The positive thing is that TRA cannot claim it's a judgment against a bad sheep and they can't victimize him.

Two of the Darlo nurses were interviewed on Free Speech Nation:

It's the first thing on the show so easy to find. Maybe around 7 minutes in to the video.

Well, that's annoying, MN stripped away the link after I pressed post.

The Darlington nurses' case is going to get another hearing on Woman's Hour this morning. I wonder if it'll be treated with less contempt than the previous handling.

that, @nauticant sounds very much like the triumph of hope over experience.

Pretty sure Beth will give it her best and now she is visibly more confident

They won't necessarily have any of the nurses on. It might just be a BBC social affairs correspondent giving a run-through while Nuala McGovern makes noises of concern.

Bethany and another of the Darlington Nurses were on GMB this morning, and got a surprisingly sympathetic interview. I wasn’t listening too closely (because 7.15am) but there didn’t appear to be any pushback from Susanna Reid and Ed Balls about the poor menz. I’ve linked a clip that I haven’t watched, but a couple of the comments are interesting.

The story is on Woman's Hour now.

Ahh, just a chat with the BBC's Health Correspondent, Dominic Hughes.

WH invited one of the nurses but nobody was available? oh. That is a bit of an own goal letting WH put their anti-woman spin on it with no pushback?

gosh, Nula is it? makes me want to start slapping people.

I thought they were going back to work and nursing people today. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

The invitation may have been at 5 minutes notice.

Thank you for that breakfast TV clip @FaithHopeCarnage

The presenter says to the nurses at the end of the interview: "It's not complex", i.e. it shouldn't have been difficult to sort this out (which I take to mean that Rose should have been spoken to by management and should have been offered an alternative changing space - this was the solution they discussed a little earlier in the interview).

I've been surprised over the years by just how many people have said situations like this are complicated.

To have it expressed in a "well the solution was perfectly obvious" way on mainstream TV is great.

Those were my thoughts too