GLP are suing Virgin Active

[ByGreatGreenWriter]

https://goodlawproject.org/were-suing-virgin-active-over-their-transphobic-rules/

“So we’re taking legal action. We are representing two claimants who are members of Virgin Active gyms and who have been subject to discrimination solely because they are trans.

According to Virgin’s new policy, both of them can no longer use facilities like the pool and sauna because they can only be reached by going through either the men’s or women’s changing rooms.“

If true that sounds like discrimination?

My hairdresser is gay and feels uncomfortable in the men's changing room so he changes at home. Plenty of people do this - they don't like communal facilities for whatever reason, but they accept it's their problem and they find a solution. My daughter is on the autistic spectrum and won't use communal showers for example.

Plenty of women won't be going to a gym which allows fully grown male bodied adults to change in front of them. My David Lloyd gym allows children in - can Jolyon really think that it's ok for 5 year girls to have to change alongside a man? Or, when the changing room is almost empty, you come out to find the only other person in there with you is a man?

Btw I simply cannot believe that men are going to beat up other customers in a health club. The supposed dangers to these trans women are utterly unfounded. These clubs have entry and exit systems, reception staff, cctv, cleaners in the changing rooms for much of the time. They are not usually the sort of gym macho body builders use - im sure trans women can be safe without having to use the ladies.

They are safe as it’s a members club - you’d get banned immediately.

Plenty of people don’t feel comfortable taking clothes off so get changed at home. My view is that so many people now don’t get changed in the gym the changing rooms should be designed with a larger unisex area just to serve as a cloakroom (eg I take off trackie trousers over shorts and my sweatshirt and coat and leave in locker). Could then be separate sex smaller areas for those who want to get showered or changed.

Re. 5 year old girls. Actually, when DH took DD swimming he had to take her to the men’s. There was a family zone but not all gyms have this. So a 5 year old girl is not a good arguement as until they are old enough to get changed on own (maybe 7/8?) they’d be with their fathers.

There will still be 5 year old girls in the ladies, with their mothers, even if some of them are with their dads, which is a different issue. i don't know what the dads do in that case. Years ago Caitlin Moran wrote an article about her husband getting a bollocking when he took their daughters into the ladies changing room at the pool. They were horrified that he was attacked for being in there - is can't find the article now, which is interesting (she expected to be supported, I think, but most people were astonished at his audacity and lack of thought for the other users).

If my husband was going to be taking little girls swimming, we wouldn't join that club, as it doesn't offer family changing.

But you told us to listen to trans voices. If not those voices, which voices would you like us to listen to?

Burgdorf moaning about 'pussy hats' maybe?

I mean, it's quite bizarre, isn't it.

Women are worried about men in their spaces, and their many nefarious, dodgy and fetishistic reasons for it. And here those men are, being completely upfront about it. But you're not supposed to listen to them?

It's always been the same. The ones we're supposed to listen to are those who aren't saying anything.

And the converse is also true.

The only voices they want to hear are those from women with money and no power. And consequently no voice.

The gym we went to had a family zone inside the men’s changing room with some cubicles. Otherwise just get changed quickly I guess. I didn’t like older boys (aged 8/9) staring at me getting changed esp when their own mums were fully clothed (as didn’t get into the water). I was endlessly complaining to staff (about boys over 8). Mums to precious to let them get changed on own in men’s.

I'm a Virgin Active member and have used quite a few of their clubs in London (I work around the city and you can generally use clubs other than your 'home' one).

I've yet to be in a Virgin club where entrance to a pool is solely restricted to entering either from the male or female changing room - yes, that's usually the most convenient route, but there are always other entrances. Staff, swimming teachers, parents etc tend to enter via the neutral doors. And steam rooms, saunas and jacuzzis are in my experience situated in the pool area and are mixed sex. There may be clubs where there are separate men and women's steam rooms, but I've yet to see one, and suspect that if there's a club where that's the case, there's also a communal one in the pool area.

I see the locations of the specific clubs complained about by the GLP are redacted. Would love to know which ones they are and the actual layout. I am very sceptical.

I also note that the GLP argues that 'non binary trans man' QX should not be in the women's room as they are such an apparently manly manwoman they would make women uncomfortable, yet transwoman SP (who is an actual man that people have clocked) needs to change with women so he won't be uncomfortable and to hell with women.

How is being told to use the facility designated for your sex discrimination?

But is it any surprise that men start crying "discrimination" when someone tells them No?

At Mill Hill the steam rooms are in the men’s and women’s changing rooms. No issue otherwise at Mill Hill, there is a 3rd space, a unisex changing room for families, with cubicles, showers etc.

I’ve used Moorgate and Swiss Cottage and there are other ways to access the pool in both clubs.

I think this is true, but (apologies for pedantry) I don't think it's a straw man - it might be a smokescreen or maybe a red herring?

Noticing and caring about women in any way only ever happens when it's suddenly useful to men's agenda.

At Angel, there are neutral entrances, with a sauna, steam room and spa pool adjacent to the main pool. All mixed sex. Same for Bromley.

Usual rule is that with single sex changing rooms and in the absence of family changing facilities, the adult takes children up to the age of 8 into the adult’s changing room - so fathers take daughters into the men’s, and mothers take sons into the women’s.

Not ideal, but for single parents or parents where only one is available to take children swimming there’s not always a lot of options.

Transreddit has always run on wishes.

Under this circumstance, I'd expect Dad to pack the biggest beach towel in the house and hold it up as a privacy screen between DD and the rest of the changing room.

I’m curious what I missed. Got a notification that @MistyGreenAndBlue had replied to me and by the time I clicked it had been deleted!

Oddly. Nothing that hadn't already been said about AGPs and their fetish for being objectified. Suppose I'd better leave it there lol

It’s because TRA’s are here and report stuff they do not like.

That poster in OP's original GLP link - https://goodlawproject.org/were-suing-virgin-active-over-their-transphobic-rules/ - is nonsensical. It says

"STOP FOLLOWING TRANSPHOBES
FOLLOW THE LAW
Virgin's exclusionary policies are outing trans and non-binary members without their consent"

As if nobody can spot a TiM a mile off in a women's changing room already? They can't seriously imagine they pass. They out themselves. Also, why aren't they proud to be trans, since they identify as trans? None of it makes sense.

And, as a PP said, "non-binary" is meaningless, not only not a protected characteristic in law (because everyone is literally either the male or female sex), but the term has no material definition in the real world, a delusion existing only in the mind of ze/zer/zhem (or whatever the pronouns are).

Anyway, there's little doubt this latest GLP cause will fail, same as nearly every claim they bring. It fills the coffers, however.

I remember Maugham from back in 2016. He used to do the same grift re Brexit. Was going to sue the government, or something. There were multiple crowdfunders. I donated once, so I know how easy it is to be gullible and taken in by him when he's a KC and saying what you want to hear.

You'd think there'd be at least a few TiM who got off on the humiliation of 'presenting' as a sissy in the mens' changing room. I recall an ancient rule of the internet: There is porn of everything.

I also note that the GLP argues that 'non binary trans man' QX should not be in the women's room as they are such an apparently manly manwoman they would make women uncomfortable, yet transwoman SP (who is an actual man that people have clocked) needs to change with women so he won't be uncomfortable and to hell with women.

Well said. The women's feelings and human rights only matter when they can be used in the service of men's wants.

Such transparent TRAliban anti-woman lack of logic. The manly TIF doesn't have 162% punch power of the other women, whereas the TIM does. I know who I'd rather get changed alongside.

Maybe it's not as much fun when it's trying to use other men with the same level of punch power as you as unconsenting participants in your fetish.

I'm thinking staring at someone and saying 'when are you getting changed' or exposing your genitals 'accidentally' might not receive the same response in the men's as in the women's. Just guessing.