GLP are suing Virgin Active

[ByGreatGreenWriter]

https://goodlawproject.org/were-suing-virgin-active-over-their-transphobic-rules/

“So we’re taking legal action. We are representing two claimants who are members of Virgin Active gyms and who have been subject to discrimination solely because they are trans.

According to Virgin’s new policy, both of them can no longer use facilities like the pool and sauna because they can only be reached by going through either the men’s or women’s changing rooms.“

If true that sounds like discrimination?

I wonder what GLP will do if the case makes it to court. Virgin will be presenting legal arguments about whether there is a requirement to make alternative provision for trans people who aren’t happy to use changing rooms based on sex, and if there is, what standard it should be. Will GLP engage with these arguments or will they stick to arguing Virgin’s changing rooms policy is wrong and must be reversed? If they don’t engage with arguments on alternative provision I think they are not acting in the best interests of trans people. And if they do they’ll upset TRAs.

I had a career in women’s services and cannot imagine refusing a service to a woman thinking they are a man, unless they were so convincing i thought they were an actual man.

Which i believe would be unlikely

the SC covered this one and said that such TiF cannot use female facilities

What the SC said was more nuanced. It pointed out that if a TiF appears to be so masculine that admitting them would spoil the service being offered it would not be unlawfully discriminatory to exclude them. It didn't say that they must not or cannot be allowed to use any female facility. It very much depends on the service being offered and is at the discretion of the service provider.

What I took from that is that a very masculine looking man could reasonably be excluded from a female-only rape counselling session, but not, for example, a female toilet.

They're rubbish at making their arguments because not only are they arguing against rational & settled law, they're arguing against evolution and reality.

They need to stop tilting at windmills.

I would like to report that after a long learning journey on here and elsewhere, worrying about departing from my broader political values, and worrying about all manner of small issues I realised that i want to be hard line on this issue.

goodbye to the concept of trans goodbye to being kind hello ordinary words hello ordinary meanings.

What a bloody emotional and intellectual liberation.

I think they do understand how women feel, but the effect on women isn't their priority. They don't want to associate with men they perceive as low status, and they don't want to challenge other men who are making demands.

Men apparently absolutely understand where they stand in the pecking order with a groupnof men and behave accordingly. When a man kills his partner, his male friends and colleagues, neighbours etc are shocked, because he was usually totally appropriate around them.

This doesn't apply to a man and a group of women. In most cases, he will try to dominate. He doesn't seek out his place in the female hierarchy, other than at the top.

Many men, with no skin in the game, think that trans women are fine to go into the ladies because, to them, they are low status and no threat. They don't understand that they are not a non threat to women.

Absolutely that. As someone astutely commented yesterday, feeling vulnerable with other men, but powerful over women.

I've always thought beta male issues played a part in all this among everything else.

This is my very favourite bit of nonsense in the application which surely would be blazingly obvious to a senior judge.

On the one hand he seems to be arguing that a pretend man QX (a woman for clarity) would be intimidating for women in a women only space whereas as actual man dressed as woman would not????

And then that a man pretending to be a woman, needs to be in a woman’s space as it is not safe to be in a male space, but a woman pretending to be a man in a mans space would be fine.

🙄

Maybe it's not as much fun when it's trying to use other men with the same level of punch power as you as unconsenting participants in your fetish.

I'm thinking staring at someone and saying 'when are you getting changed' or exposing your genitals 'accidentally' might not receive the same response in the men's as in the women's. Just guessing.

I also note that the GLP argues that 'non binary trans man' QX should not be in the women's room as they are such an apparently manly manwoman they would make women uncomfortable, yet transwoman SP (who is an actual man that people have clocked) needs to change with women so he won't be uncomfortable and to hell with women.

Well said. The women's feelings and human rights only matter when they can be used in the service of men's wants.

Such transparent TRAliban anti-woman lack of logic. The manly TIF doesn't have 162% punch power of the other women, whereas the TIM does. I know who I'd rather get changed alongside.

You'd think there'd be at least a few TiM who got off on the humiliation of 'presenting' as a sissy in the mens' changing room. I recall an ancient rule of the internet: There is porn of everything.

That poster in OP's original GLP link - https://goodlawproject.org/were-suing-virgin-active-over-their-transphobic-rules/ - is nonsensical. It says

"STOP FOLLOWING TRANSPHOBES
FOLLOW THE LAW
Virgin's exclusionary policies are outing trans and non-binary members without their consent"

As if nobody can spot a TiM a mile off in a women's changing room already? They can't seriously imagine they pass. They out themselves. Also, why aren't they proud to be trans, since they identify as trans? None of it makes sense.

And, as a PP said, "non-binary" is meaningless, not only not a protected characteristic in law (because everyone is literally either the male or female sex), but the term has no material definition in the real world, a delusion existing only in the mind of ze/zer/zhem (or whatever the pronouns are).

Anyway, there's little doubt this latest GLP cause will fail, same as nearly every claim they bring. It fills the coffers, however.

I remember Maugham from back in 2016. He used to do the same grift re Brexit. Was going to sue the government, or something. There were multiple crowdfunders. I donated once, so I know how easy it is to be gullible and taken in by him when he's a KC and saying what you want to hear.

It’s because TRA’s are here and report stuff they do not like.

Oddly. Nothing that hadn't already been said about AGPs and their fetish for being objectified. Suppose I'd better leave it there lol

I’m curious what I missed. Got a notification that @MistyGreenAndBlue had replied to me and by the time I clicked it had been deleted!

Under this circumstance, I'd expect Dad to pack the biggest beach towel in the house and hold it up as a privacy screen between DD and the rest of the changing room.

Transreddit has always run on wishes.

Usual rule is that with single sex changing rooms and in the absence of family changing facilities, the adult takes children up to the age of 8 into the adult’s changing room - so fathers take daughters into the men’s, and mothers take sons into the women’s.

Not ideal, but for single parents or parents where only one is available to take children swimming there’s not always a lot of options.

At Angel, there are neutral entrances, with a sauna, steam room and spa pool adjacent to the main pool. All mixed sex. Same for Bromley.

Noticing and caring about women in any way only ever happens when it's suddenly useful to men's agenda.

I think this is true, but (apologies for pedantry) I don't think it's a straw man - it might be a smokescreen or maybe a red herring?

At Mill Hill the steam rooms are in the men’s and women’s changing rooms. No issue otherwise at Mill Hill, there is a 3rd space, a unisex changing room for families, with cubicles, showers etc.

I’ve used Moorgate and Swiss Cottage and there are other ways to access the pool in both clubs.

How is being told to use the facility designated for your sex discrimination?

But is it any surprise that men start crying "discrimination" when someone tells them No?