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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

1000 replies

plinkyplonk123 · 15/01/2026 00:25

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

OP posts:
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12
ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:38

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 11:17

I completely understand and accept that trans identifying people exist. I’ve said this before on here.

What I don’t understand is why their feelings trump mine and no one can explain that to me.

also. The law is clear in the UK. Why are these trans identifying individuals not expected to obey the law?

The first part of your reply is good to read. The rest, I am not going to argue with because I don't have the answers

Greyskybluesky · 15/01/2026 11:38

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:37

I didn't understand it. Is someone being trans and agreeing with you your trump card?

😂no. It means I listened to what a trans person had to say. Which is what posters on here are often being asked to do, no? You should try it.

wishingonastar101 · 15/01/2026 11:39

I love a thread where the OP says something stupid then buggers off... like 'look at me everybody...I'm really important and different and special but don't have a leg to stand on in an actual debate.."

can't think which group of people that reminds me of...

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 11:39

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:38

The first part of your reply is good to read. The rest, I am not going to argue with because I don't have the answers

But the law on the U.K. says that sex means sex not gender.

so why don’t trans identifying individuals have to obey the law?

i do. Have to obey the law that is. So what is it about trans identifying people that means they don’t?

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:39

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:35

I'm glad that is not your experience. I'm sorry that you can't understand that it is the experience of others. If someone is murdered because they are trans then it is a problem.

Please could you link to your murder statistics.

I don't think it is particularly helpful to trans people to suggest that they are at a high risk of being murdered if there is no evidence for that.

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:39

Namelessnelly · 15/01/2026 11:25

People. An be as different as they like. They just need to use the facilities determined by their sex. HTH

I have never stated that I don't think this. Whether I do or not isn't what I'm talking about. HTH.

TheKeatingFive · 15/01/2026 11:40

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:38

The first part of your reply is good to read. The rest, I am not going to argue with because I don't have the answers

Keeping women's single sex facilities single sex is an answer.

So as you 'don't have any', let's keep that in place, shall we?

ThatBlackCat · 15/01/2026 11:40

JohnBullshit · 15/01/2026 11:21

Yes, I am. I'm not trans, and I see transphobic comments every day on here, and don't understand how anyone can think that's not oppressive.

Just what are the so-called, 'transphobic' comments on here, @JohnBullshit ? That rape survivors deserve our hard-won safeguards, sex-based rights and spaces? Do tell us how that is 'transphobic' without coming across as femphobic and hatefully misogynistic.

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:41

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:06

The rampant mockery & lack of acceptance of gender expression is blatant on here. Why use the word 'we'? You know exactly what is happening, people hide prejudice behind rhetoric. If you don't then that's great, but, the experience of trans people, non-binary people, queer people, why is that never part of the statements? Why not say, "I have empathy & understanding of the issues people experience; my concern is for safety of others, but I recognise that the volatile & emotional nature of the debate leaves many feeling dehumanised". Is nuance so hard?

The rampant mockery & lack of acceptance of gender expression is blatant on here

Can you not understand that the concept is rather sexist?

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:41

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:41

The rampant mockery & lack of acceptance of gender expression is blatant on here

Can you not understand that the concept is rather sexist?

And after all, this is the feminism board.

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:42

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 11:37

We is not ok but “you lot” is?

edit coz I missed a word.

Edited

I lose respect when I realise I'm having one of 'those' kind of conversations. It's not worth my sincerity. Frankly, it's probably not worth yours.

ThatBlackCat · 15/01/2026 11:42

Waitingforthesunnydays · 15/01/2026 11:28

You will definitely be in the minority on here. IME almost everyone on MN believes all trans women are pervs and sexual predators who get a sexual kick by dressing as women. What do you mean exactly by trans inclusive anyway? (Apologies if you’ve explained this, I’ve only read the first page of posts)
I would consider my views mixed and complicated. I’m sure I’d get hate from both sides of the debate for my views! I’m a lesbian and it pisses me off that gay people have been lumped in with the trans rights movement when sexual orientation and gender identity literally have nothing to do with each other. I believe that transsexualism and gender dysphoria are real but it affects a tiny, tiny proportion of people. Nowhere near the amount of people who actually identify as trans. I feel sorry for those people, who I believe have a right to get gender reassignment surgery on the NHS, use the gendered spaces that match their new gender and be seen and respected as their new gender. However, if it was limited to those genuine cases of true transsexualism then there would be no public debate about it, no media coverage and no one would really care (or realise) because the numbers would be so small. Pro-trans people would love to call me a bigot for saying this (and I know it’s complicated) but I’d want & expect a trans woman using female spaces to have had surgery to remove their penis. I don’t believe penises ever belong in female spaces. I also believe in biology and don’t believe anyone can physically change sex. If an adult truly suffering from gender dysphoria wants to get surgery to look and feel like the opposite sex then I have no problem with it and I will treat them as the sex they present as. But they need to go all the way. What I’m 100% not ok with is “trans women” sticking on a dress and some makeup and thinking that entitles them to use women’s spaces. I’m not ok with men with autogynephilia being accepted as women, not ok with self-ID, not ok with trans women in women’s sports (even true transsexuals who’ve had full surgery)

My biggest issue though is the fucking non-binaries and the social contagion of young girls identifying as trans because of how revered masculinity STILL is in our society. I have a 7 yo DD who’s very much a Tom boy (although I hate that word, unfortunately it’s still the best way to describe it) and it terrifies me that she’s being conditioned to think that she can’t be a girl who loves football, getting muddy, and climbing trees. She must instead be a boy or be non-binary. It’s absolute BS and causing extremely regressive gender stereotypes. Why can’t we just accept the sex we’re born into and break the mould of what it means to be a girl or what it means to be a boy?! Those people would be the true brave pioneers, not girls who give up on being a girl at the first hurdle!

Another very worrying issue (not so much in the UK but in more conservative countries) is gay people transitioning because they think it’s the only way to be accepted by their families & society. It’s been reported that in Iran 70% of people seeking gender reassignment surgery are homosexual. The whole trans movement is deeply sexist and homophobic in my opinion.

I read no further than this:
IME almost everyone on MN believes all trans women are pervs and sexual predators who get a sexual kick by dressing as women.

NO ONE has ever said that on here, and that is a malicious lie. We've said that the MALE SEX is dangerous - however they dress or identify. At least have the integrity to not lie, manipulate and misrepresent us.

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:43

TheKeatingFive · 15/01/2026 11:34

And I say trans women are women just like trans men are men.

They aren't though. Not in any objective, verifiable sense.

You are free to believe that they are, but that's a metaphysical belief that cannot be verified, like belief in a god or the existence of human souls.

I think it's quite easy to verify whether someone has a soul

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:44

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:41

And after all, this is the feminism board.

What concept?

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 11:44

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:43

I think it's quite easy to verify whether someone has a soul

How? I’m an atheist and I don’t believe in a soul.

TheKeatingFive · 15/01/2026 11:44

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:43

I think it's quite easy to verify whether someone has a soul

Really? How?

VickyEadieofThigh · 15/01/2026 11:44

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:43

I think it's quite easy to verify whether someone has a soul

Go on - HOW?

BareCarpet · 15/01/2026 11:45

I have two trans friends, and I can't say that it has ever even come up in conversation.

NotBadConsidering · 15/01/2026 11:45

Just look into their eyes, obviously 👀

ThatBlackCat · 15/01/2026 11:45

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:31

So you are saying that it isn't accepted on here to mock pronouns, for example? I should hope that on a thread like this some people would be supportive. I would hope that it would be a chance to express support. Bullies pick at specific points rather than addressing what is being said, use logical fallacies & harness emotive groupthink to attack. I'm AFAB, have experienced childhood sexual abuse, rape, sexual assault & have been in abusive relationships. And I say trans women are women just like trans men are men. I don't have the answers for the issues that arise around law.

It's not appropriate to use Trans Ideology cult buzzwords like 'AFAB'. No one is 'assigned' a sex at birth. Sex is assigned the moment the male or female spermatoza enters the ova. Sex is observed at the 20 week scan, and again at birth.

And no female should be gaslit to deny their lived experience as the oppressed female sex to called a male cultural appropriator a woman. Unless you will call Rachel Dolezal an African American - will you?

KitWyn · 15/01/2026 11:46

plinkyplonk123 · 15/01/2026 00:27

Basically just saying that you don’t demonise the trans-community as a whole. You don’t have to be completely in support of everything and obviously people shouldn’t have to feel unsafe.

No-one on Mumsnet demonises everyone who identifies as the opposite sex.

For example, many female children who identify as boys, primarily do so, because they are frightened they might be same-sex attracted. Or they hope to escape the male gaze/attention from creepy men that starts at puberty. Or they are trying to make sense of the world as a bullied autistic child. It may even be a response to childhood sexual abuse, or to escape continuing abuse.

Feeling compassion and wanting appropriate support (including criminal justice/police involvement where appropriate) for these girls is a natural human response.

This support should include encouraging the girls to feel more comfortable in their female bodies and to overcome any homophobia or bullying they may have suffered. Being same-sex attracted is absolutely fine, it does not mean you are really a boy. And the shame of sexual abuse falls only on the perpetrator.

Encouraging children to believe they can change sex is an additional cruelty. It will make their adult lives smaller, sadder and much more complex. Living a lie is exhausting.

One of the many problems with 'Gender Ideology' is that by pushing males into women-only spaces it makes women and girls feel unsafe. And these women and girls respond by not coming back. Teenage girls stop playing football. Elderly women stop relaxing at their so-called women's pond. No-one dares complain and be labelled transphobic.

Thus, by including trans women and trans girls (legally men and boys respectively under the Equality Act 2010) you're actively choosing to exclude women and girls.

Including trans women means excluding women. That's the choice you're making. Be honest. Own (up to) your decisions.

Why prioritise the wants of men and boys over the needs of women and girls?

Why support medical professionals lying to vulnerable children and damaging their ability to have a full, independent and joyful adult life?

These are very bad choices. Please think again.

viques · 15/01/2026 11:46

Liberalinall · 15/01/2026 00:35

I think trans people have taken a long, adventurous, and difficult journey from one gender to another. Not only is it a huge biological journey - different hormones and body parts - it is a huge cultural journey. I think everyone should give these brave travelers as much support as possible.

Biologically of course, it is a journey that doesn’t involve taking a single step, since nothing can change a human being’s biology which is set at the moment of conception and remains the same until that person draws their last breath.

But people who want to live as another gender are of course perfectly free to do so, just as long as they realise that living as another gender does not trump another persons legal rights, you know the ones enshrined in law and dictated by biological sex.

ThatBlackCat · 15/01/2026 11:46

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:32

I can't engage with a denial of reality

That's ironic. Like being a flat-earther science-denier and denying sex? Calling fully intact males 'women'? Of all the examples of gaslighting and DARVO...

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:46

Taztoy · 15/01/2026 11:36

I don’t understand in what way trans identifying men are women.

I don’t feel like a woman. I don’t feel anything. I don’t have a gender identity and I believe me being a woman is based in my biology. I don’t wear skirts or dresses any more. Not ever. Nor do I wear leggings or elastic waisted trousers.

I have been told before on here that that is transphobic and me weaponising my trauma.

how is it? Can someone please explain to me? Because I genuinely don’t understand.

I obey the law and I don’t understand why trans identifying individuals don’t have to do the same.

This doesn't sound transphobic to me, and I'm sorry you've been made to feel that way. I hate that this is the landscape, it is so full of hate, on both 'sides'. Legality is so important, I don't have the answers. Acceptance is the goal.

nicepotoftea · 15/01/2026 11:47

ForProudPinkPombear · 15/01/2026 11:44

What concept?

Gender expression.

Why would one need to express a gender? Why not just wear clothes?

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