Womens toilet with cubicles in the workplace

[Foodylicious]

What should the position be here from the employer/organisation perspective, regarding a transwomen intermittently using these, as opposed to the single enclosed toilet (think typical disabled facility available in a supermarket/cafe) they use most of thw time, that is on the same floor/in close proximity.
Edited to add: This is UK, England.

He won’t. As far as he is concerned, he is as private as if he was using a urinal, probably feels even more private.

He doesn’t care. And that’s being generous.

@KitWyn

Very few women I know over the age of 35, support inclusion. The only exceptions being those on the very hard-left. Even women working in an apparently captured profession, e.g. social work, charity sector or television production, usually pay lip service at work, while being privately relieved by the Supreme Court ruling on the Equality Act 2010

worse than that very few women full stop support inclusion. I have a 21 year old DD at a very left leaning university and she has been full indoctrinated into the “be kind” (Covid years and the opportunity to be permanently online were brutal for our young adults) even she knows that TW are men and a risk to women and girls. But she barely dare articulate it. for fear of how she might be perceived.

We had a devastating conversation when she was 17 where she said she was fine with men in women’s bathrooms and I asked whether she would leave her 10 year old sister in the bathroom with a man and she was horrified. Of course she wouldn’t. But she would sacrifice her own teen safety at the alter of be kind.

Technically, a Stand-To-Pee device can be used by any woman, over the vulva; it's not just for transmen, though there seems to be a big market there. I personally could never be bothered with the logistics, and just use a cubicle.

A cubicle door is a flimsy bit of plastic with gaps all around it. You can hear everything. You and your grandaughters are sat with your genitals/arse out and just a thin plastic partition separating you from your toileting neighbour. That's hardly protecting you from predators is it

It's incredibly naive/stupid to think that there arent men won't try to assault, or look film around the gaps or gain sexual pleasure in that scenario.

The grandmothers of these girls probably thought their granddaughters would be safe behind a locked cubicle door.

Trouble is, the cameras were already in there with them.

For those who don't want to click: he installed hidden cameras inside bathrooms, changing rooms and other locations to film girls.

https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/news/nottinghamshire/news/news/2025/october/voyeur-sexually-abused-girls-while-filming-them-in-secret/

If you are open to discussion, maybe you could clarify your post.

Firstly, do you understand the safeguarding principles around segregation based on sex that are used to form toilet policy from the beginning ?

If you understand the issue in prison, if you think about why there are significant issues in prison you surely must understand that the same thing applies in all single sex spaces. If male people are attacking female people in prison when they say that they are female, what is the difference between them and any other male person when considering population risk factors? If you understand the prison issue, you understand those male people with transgender identities have not suddenly moved to having the same or lower risk of harming women as other women.

Because other women are still allowed to share cells with other women, aren’t they? Because female people have a much lower risk of committing sex crime against a female person than a male person.

Those male people are now excluded from female prisons because it was evidenced that they still committed male pattern crime even though they believe they are female people.

Do you believe that group of male people, those with transgender identities, should access any female single sex space?

The domestic violence and abuse issue is one that isn’t hard to understand. For an easy example, if a two people are now separated but still work at the same place, that male person who has a transgender identity will use the same toilets as the ex partner if the policy or law allows it. It is very easy for the male person to time toilet visits as an act of intimidation. I know of at least one workplace where this happened. The woman complained and was told there was nothing the employer could do about it. She then left her job and had to get another one. In the meantime, she has lost income and had to support her and the children.

This is just one scenario and it didn’t involve any ‘violence’ at the workplace at all. Just intimidation that was her word against his and the workplace said that they wouldn’t accommodate her needs .

But I have spilt yogurt down my blouse before a big meeting, taken it off, rinsed it and dried it under the hand dryer (hoping none of the female managers at the meeting came in!) Not something I would be best pleased doing in front of Steven/Stephanie from IT.

I also used the illegally unisex loos at my son's school during Parents Evening. Used the cubicle then washed my hands next to a strapping bloke. He looked as embarrassed, awkward and uncomfortable as me.

In the 1990s in Cardiff, a new nightclub installed funky new toilets. A round space with a round sink installation in the middle and individual cubicles around it. Changed back to two single sex spaces within a month of opening. Everyone hated it and one thing often overlooked, women missed the safe, communal experience of the women's loos.

Theres an influx of toilet threads with new one-timers on.

I will say it again, the report showing that only 4 councils documented a complaint in a 3 year period just shows women’s concerns don’t get documented in council run toilets that are women only. That is it.

It’s useful for the Sandy Peggy case etc because it shows nothing gets officially documented when there’s clearly so much uproar over it.

For instance in schools. There’s countless reports in newspapers complaining about school toilets.

There is no definition of what a public toilet is or how many public toilets we have in this country. We know more about the numbers of streetlights than toilets.

Apologies if already mentioned, google Katie Dolatowski.
Also when a place becomes mixed sex, sex crimes are far higher due to predators taking advantage of trans rights. "mixed-sex changing rooms were the location of at least 16 rapes, 80 sexual assaults and 65 acts of voyeurism in England and Wales in 2023."
WRN did some work recently https://www.womensrights.network/post/how-leisure-centres-enable-sexual-predators but you know what's really bad, this had already been done in 2018 so we can't say we didn't know, and here we are in 2023 via this policy 16 women raped in 2023. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

And asking the question the other way round, if it's not an issue to recognise these men are not women when it comes to certain spaces, what's with the weird need to pretend they are women when it comes to the toilets?

Really, why on earth are we even seriously discussing in what situations it's reasonable to stop pretending men are women because they say they are? Why are we even in the position anyone thinks this is reasonable to pretend they are in the first place?

Take a step back and the reason all these questions are so hard is because they are trying to turn a falsehood into truth.

Whatever this "womanhood" is that trans women believe they have, whether it is real or not, it is never going to be the same thing as female biology, it doesn't bring the same physical and social needs, challenges and risks as female biology, it does not make trans women interchangeable with us, it does not even make trans women more like us than other men in any meaningful practical way, and all this stupid mess is just the unavoidable result trying to pretend something is true when it isn't.

Oh Numbersguy's post has been deleted. It's a pity when that happens, such crass stupidity should be left to stand for all to see.

Anyway, I'm copying this post from the "council gym" thread because it makes great points about why women don't complain. All credit to @FirmaTerra who wrote the post:

"It's also important to recognise that women being too scared to speak up isn't the only reason why incidences go unreported, at least in the moment. Here are others:

• they simply don't have the time to stop what they're doing and speak up/make a complaint, as they're in a rush to go to work/pick up their kids/meet someone etc.
• they have their children with them and don't want to alarm their children or put their children in an uncomfortable situation by speaking up.
• they want to speak up, but have no faith in anything being done about it and are resigned.
• they think everyone else around is fine with it and don't want to rock the boat."

Picking up on ‘Sexual Harm Prevention Order which places a number of restrictions on him’

Many of these orders are that men are not to go near female toilets or unisex toilets.

You’d be fine with this guy in the next cubicle would you?

That's awful. Although it seems that some of his crimes were in private homes, it's a shame that the public venues aren't listed. Women need to be aware what places offer dangerous voyeurs like him to operate unchallenged

There are plenty of examples of sexual assaults, and of placing hidden cameras, at work.

And the person sacked for making trouble will often be the woman who complains, not the man who attacked her.

I don't know what 'hard left' these women align with. The Communist Party have been very clear about their sex realist position and commitment to sex based rights. Prioritising the wishes of a minority and the rights to individual liberty over the greater good is a hard liberal position. Not a hard left one.

I agree - it's the left-in-name-only lot (labour party, unions, most student politics) that are the main problem. The communists have been on our side from the start.

Or as I know in the case I am aware of, will be told there is nothing the employer can do so the woman leaves.

It is the same story over and over. The women and girls face negative repercussions when they complain. They leave, they avoid, they are sacked, suspended, banned, ostracised and more.

That is the situation that the long term strategy has created. It is deliberately hostile to those who complain.

Yet we constantly get these derogatory posts from ignorant people or worse, those deliberately derogating and demonising people they disagree with.

Absolutely not. Have you never worked with a creep?

There was one manager who liked to run meetings from his desk. He’d pull his ‘executive chair’ out to one side and tilt right back with his feet on his desk. Such a jolly, friendly, courteous bloke, who insisted that the ladies got to sit on the sofa, while the men perched around the office. One evening, we ladies went out together, and someone took a photo of us together on a sofa. It suddenly became blatantly obvious why Mr Manager insisted we sit on the sofa. None of us ever wore a pencil skirt to work again.

How would you complain about that?

How comfortable would you feel with that man in the women’s toilets?

And he was the least creepy of the creeps I have worked with.

I occasionally have to remind myself that posters who find women's biology icky, or their reaction hysterical, or simply don't get it, might well have a very good reason for that.

Also In workplaces our mandatory training “teaches” us that it’s a disciplinary offence to complain.

in my workplace training one of the examples of something that we would be required to report was overhearing two members of staff discussing whether transwomen should be able to use female toilets.

Exactly. Which is why the research cited by PP about hospital complaints is so flawed. Its been drilled into us that any objection to TIM in women's spaces is the action of an unkind, out of touch bigot and is likely to get us harshly judged. Hardly surprising that ill vulnerable women in hospitals judge it wiser to keep quiet.
Complaints about the NHS are typically lower than actual rates of dissatisfaction anyway, as people tend to balance their negative experiences against appreciation for the care recieved, feel its wrong to complain in the context of having their life saved or illness managed, and believe they would be 'ungrateful' or wasting overstretched resources if they complained.
For more useful would be data on how many women would mind. But that's not a question the 'researchers' wanted the answer to.

Agreed. It's like the headline

"No Workhouse Orphans Recorded As Asking For Seconds Of Gruel Again Last Year!
Incontestably proving how satisfying and nourishing are the meal portions in all of our establishments. Please donate generously to your local Beadle and continue to support our humble, yet noble, piety."

We've all read about Sandie Peggie, the Darlington Nurses, Kathleen Stock at Sussex Uni, Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, Westminster Social Work, Leonardo UK etc. etc.

Why would any woman risk complaining?

Good God.