Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #59

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025
Thread 58: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5458443-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-58 11 December 2025 to 12 December 2025

Any alternatives to 'Pax'?

'Trucie' and you crossed your fingers.

I know what you mean but I cordially disagree in that one of the key differences between being sexually assaulted by a man and sexually assaulted by a woman, other than the utter gulf in probability, is that one of them can impregnate you (with all the additional difficulty that attends that, one way or another).

Trying to impregnate your partner while simultaneously insisting on sharing single sex spaces with women is glaringly inconsistent, yes, demonstrates (at best) a woeful lack of understanding or empathy for what it actually means to live as a woman or a massive and deliberate "fuck you" to women (at worst), but it also puts beyond doubt that this particular man remains, in absolute fact, a practical physical danger to women in a way specfically considered when putting the original safeguards in place.

I'd like to see JKR wearing that one.

Barley. No idea why.

Eta with the crossed fingers too.

Fifer on "Big Sond"

Aye. Ah've read maist ae the judgement and seen a' the comments on the threeds here. PPs that have said he's no worth the guid name "Big Sond" - ah couldnae agree mair.

Ah'm regrettin ma part in that, ah'm seek worse than that time I got a ticht dose ae fid pisenin fae the new takeawa doon the high street.

"Sleekit Eck" or "Eck the neck" mebbe?

"Former EJ Kemp" wid be guid eh, ah think that wid be a crowd pleaser, at least roond this bit.

Women must not only accept their subjugation, but perform an adequately convincing display of enjoying it, too. Real Winston Smith territory. The pinnacle of malicious sadism.

I'm not sure you can rule out the HR member. CIPD is pretty captured, and has been putting out some terrible guidance to its members.

Also, Kemp's in his mid 60s isn't he? Not that elderly.

Perfect age for a bit of plausible retirement

Contempt Kemp?

Yes, that's a very good point. CIPD is awful. Consider Lorraine Brown as firmly back in the frame.

CIPD, just yesterday, updated its website with the following squirrelly & panicky statement. This references the Supreme Court judgement as being of 'particular importance'.

"UPDATE 16 DECEMBER 2025

The CIPD’s guidance is regularly being updated, and members should be reminded that, as with any guidance given by the CIPD, current versions should be used in place of any other guidance. Where the understanding of law or good practice evolves, we will continue to update our advice accordingly. The surrounding legal landscape and consequent good practice is changing and will continue to change. Of particular importance is the judgment of the Supreme Court in the case of For Women Scotland Ltd v Scottish Ministers in April 2025, which clarified the meaning of sex, male and female in the Equality Act 2010.

Key parts of our advice are informed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission's guidance in this space, given their role as the statutory body. The EHRC statutory guidance will be updated following a consultation that ran until 30 June 2025.

On 5 September 2025, the EHRC announced that it has submitted the updated code of practice for services, public functions and associations to the Minister for Women and Equalities for approval. The EHRC has removed the interim update from their website and outlined that:

“Duty bearers should:

• continue to take specialist legal advice, as before, on their obligations under any relevant legislation, including the Equality Act 2010 and Human Rights Act 1998

• use the new code when it is approved by Parliament”.

We await confirmation on when this updated code of practice will become statutory guidance. We will update this guide in line with this updated code of practice once it becomes statutory guidance.

We are aware that some organisations, employees and practitioners have strong and varied views on both the EHRC guidance and the Supreme Court judgement. We recognise the implications will cause challenges for many businesses and immediate impacts for employees.

Ultimately, organisations should follow the EHRC position, seeking appropriate legal guidance and following any new code when approved by Parliament.

If you do need immediate practical support we would advise sourcing specific advice from an employment lawyer."

https://www.cipd.org/uk/knowledge/guides/transgender-non-binary-edi/

Elderly? He's only in his 60s! I don't think there is any known reason to think that the particluar problems with the judgement could be explained by reference to the J's age.

He does carry overall responsibility for the content though. I can believe that there were other strong influences but still.

Is there a Fifeish word meaning Disappointment? Google says Scunner is Scots dialect. Could we rename EJ Kemp “Big Scunner” ?

An area of the playground, maybe a banking around a park would be designated as 'cree' where you couldn't be caught or tagged. Years later, when Friends became popular, the line "WE WERE ON A BREAK" always reminded me of kids in the playground protesting "I WAS ON CREE".

Scribsies in my childhood - with fingers crossed.

This makes me wonder whether FWR trends older than other area of MN talk. My feeling is that it probably does. This part of the site in particular seems to be rich in life experience.

The CIPD's panicky statement

• continue to take specialist legal advice, as before, on their obligations under any relevant legislation, including the Equality Act 2010 and Human Rights Act 1998

Unfortunately I can imagine HR departments thinking 'specialist' means LGBTABCD+ which could lead them straight to Stonewall and their ilk.

@KitWyn I like how the last paragraph bins off any responsibility to others:
"If you do need immediate practical support we would advise sourcing specific advice from an employment lawyer."

"Scunnered", is disappointed, fed up or done in.

I'd prefer to call Big Sond a Big Jobby tbh

Scunner Kempie would fit, aye.

Here's his cousin, Scunner Campbell, in action in 1980s Documentary "Supergran"

Ye see yon judgie ca’d a lord,
Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that,
Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
He’s but a coof for a’ that.
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
His judgement, star, an’ a’ that,
The woman o’ independent mind,
She looks an’ laughs at a’ that.

Dear reader, I've nae idea what a coof is, let your imagination fill in the linguistic blank, ken.

Just catching up so apologies if someone else has posted this. It’s completely illogical that a biological female who is planning to become pregnant can be granted a GRC changing their legal sex to male. Yet this is exactly what the High Court has decided.
https://www.ngalaw.co.uk/high-court-confirms-the-right-of-a-trans-man-to-be-legally-recognised-as-male-while-hoping-to-conceive-a-child

Edited: sorry others beat me to it.

Scottish National Dictionary
COOF, CUIF, Couff, Cufe, Kuf, n.1 Also †keuff, kiff, and unusual variant †coif.[kuf Sc., m.Sc. and s.Sc. + kyf and kɪf (late), Ags. + køf; kyf Sh.]
1. A fool, simpleton, dull-witted fellow (Sh. 1914 Angus Gl., küf). Gen.Sc.Also dim. cuiffie.
2. A useless, incompetent fellow; a spiritless, "feckless" person (Abd.9, Ags.1, Fif.10, Arg.1 1937; Ayr. 1882 R. Drennan in C. Mackay Poetry and Humour of Sc. Lang. 53).
3. A lout, a rustic (Fif.1 1937); "a clownish fellow" (Uls. 1880 W. H. Patterson Gl. Ant. and Dwn.).
†4. A man who meddles with woman's work or affairs (Rxb. 1825 Jam.2; 1923 Watson W.-B., obs., coof, cufe).
5. A coward (Ags.1 1937).

(My bold and underlining)
High time the obsolete meaning 4) was revived!

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60

Thanks! Every day is a school day!