Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #59

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025
Thread 58: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5458443-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-58 11 December 2025 to 12 December 2025

Sandie said herself in her statement that she didn't know anything about the theory, she just felt strongly that she shouldn't have to share a changing room with a man. Seems perfectly reasonable to me - not everyone is down our particular rabbit hole, but it doesn't stop them having opinions and views that chime with the more formally GC ones.

https://open.substack.com/pub/pollyclark/p/aboard-the-good-ship-sanity?r=3kcjq2&utm_medium=ios&shareImageVariant=overlay

i don’t know if you can read this Substack article by Polly Clark. It’s a nice read and gets to the Peggie judgment at the end. The point that she makes is similar to Foran’s yesterday, that they are repeating the same tactics that got them Stonewall Law

I live in Fife. We’ve had three high profile cases of TW criminals.

Everyone working in Kirkcaldy knows about the long haired paedophile who tried to rape a wee girl in Morrison’s toilets, down at Kirkcaldy prom.

Our local papers have also carried reports of trans high school kids demanding gender neutral toilets.

I was in another Fife hospital for a day op. One of the nurses, on finding out that I was a teacher, asked me what the heck was going on in Fife schools with all the gender nonsense.

I’m on my phone. Can elaborate later if need be.

That was readable to me. Thank you. It perhaps underlines one of her points that one of my first thoughts was that if anyone knows where her boat is moored 'Jack' might be identifiable and could get in trouble.

No, if the examiner deducted marks quietly and respectfully and submitted paperwork in a timely and hopefully male manner, your case is dismissed. But actually your favourite, most patient maths teacher has to be struck off for trying to change your beliefs about how to work your sums out.😂

I hate to say this but please remember to change enough details so that noone else can be potentially identified and persecuted by the nutcases in charge of fife.

Thanks, was able to read it.

However, is she correct in stating that Dr U sbd his wife are trying to conceive? Do we know that, or is she conflating Dr U and Rose from Darlington?
It was otherwise a good article, but facts are important.

In broad terms they all have a stake in the first tier ET court's performance. Crowd-funding is becoming more popular and successful and makes the ET and EAT more accessible. The increased interest in Open Justice and remote observations means that the public is wising up and, if there is widespread reduced confidence in the ET, it's likely that higher numbers of people will be motivated to appeal, and able to make better informed and more timely applications. That will almost certainly increase the administrative burden on the EAT in the first instance, and seems likely to increase the total numbers of appeals that make it to a hearing.

And how many are themselves cross-dressers in private?

In case you are interested in how those on 'the right side of history' are reporting the Peggie and Leonardo judgments: Novara media article (brace yourselves)

Earlier this year Kemp had the temerity to criticise a 30 page statement of claim & further particulars as "prolix and diffuse".

Quite rude of him to wang out a 300+ page prolix, diffuse and garrulous judgment.

So far his other judgments actually seem to refer to actual cases with hallucinations.

No corrections yet today?
You know what they say:
a day without a correction is like a day without sunshine😁

the AI stuff can be turned off for google using the search parameter udm=14 in the address bar. There is also a web page which does this for you & explains it better than me:
https://udm14.org/

I'd still say LLM/Ai can be a very useful tool for natural language searching, even with typoes, so long as you maintain a high index of suspicion & argue back. Its a bit like handling work presented by an eager child, mistakes being far more likely than mendacity, & is a step forward from the 1960's TOM model of computers (Totally Obedient Moron).

I see it stated in lots of places, and wonder if it’s a muddle with the Darlington case. In Darlington it was only hearsay, and certainly wasn’t part of the evidence we had access to in Peggie’s. Certainly a weakness if she’s wrong

Scottish Legal News survey

www.scottishlegal.com/articles/overwhelming-support-for-investigation-into-judge-over-anomalies-in-peggie-judgment

In one of the comments under the original post, someone says it’s commonplace for ET judgments to be riddled with mistakes and misrepresentations designed to justify the employer, so they may have just got used to this style of botch and can’t see that this is not how you’re supposed to do it.

Thank you, I had no idea this existed!

I just did a simple search - "are dr upton and his wife trying for a baby". The very first result was from the Nursing Times on 20th February 2025 - "20 Feb 2025 — To be clear Dr Upton is a 6′ intact male who has had no medical or surgical intervention. He is apparently trying for a child with his wife." I cannot access the complete article because I would have to subscribe. The dreaded AI response was this, which rings a bell with me.

"Yes, online discussions and reports related to the employment tribunal case of Dr. Beth Upton (a transgender woman who was born male) mention that
she and her wife are trying for a baby.

This information has been raised in the context of the public debate surrounding the legal case, specifically by those who point to Dr. Upton's biological sex and family planning to argue against her use of female-only changing rooms. It was also mentioned in the context of the tribunal itself, which heard that Dr. Upton had stopped taking female hormones to pursue this"

Was it put to him during the hearing?

But when you argue back it’s arguments just tend towards agreeing with you.

sorry - Justices of the Supreme Court...

I should have googled!

I'm sure there was something early in the Peggie threads about Upton and his wife trying for a baby. I'm pretty certain it wasn't a conflation with Darlington threads. Although if both Beth and Rose have not yet impregnated their wives they're either not trying, there's something up that might require medical attention (and is none of our business) or, possibly, it's an easy excuse to explain why they've not had 'bottom surgery'. Imo they don't need excuses, it's also none of my business but fwiw with the risks I think it's best avoided. It's also irrelevant. He shouldn't be using the women's facilities because he is not a woman. Never will be.

Article by Shona Craven (in the National!) in response to one of the more egregious bits of that BBC Scotcast episode this morning: https://archive.is/7zOkF

I think that it is worth airing the inconsistent stance of Mr Biological Female & Reliable Witness Upton. Also his mashalling of his acting ability at christmas, plus trying to get any opposition sacked all in support of his illegal presence in the womens CR.

Have people read this one? And have you ever come across such confused nonsense as this paragraph?

Gender critical feminism and the fight over defining gender upholds the patriarchy. If the legal definitions of “woman” and access to spaces are tied to the external or performative characteristics of womanhood, social norms become the authority over womanhood. Women have always been policed for how they look, behave, dress and present themselves. The belief in rigid gender recognition is the belief that only certain types of women are valid. Trans equality is part of the fight for women’s equality, because both cis and trans women face systemic misogyny, gendered violence, and oppression.

It's the gender ideology nonsense that would have us believe that women are made of mascara and frilly frocks and superficial nonsense that anyone can appropriate. Factual sex that indicates that we come in every shade of interests, tastes and abilities regardless of haircut or clothing.

The incompetence matches their grasp on reality.

They quote the judgment with the made up quote!!!!