Page 4 | Thread derailment

Temporaryusernamefortoday · 2025-12-11T22:51:55+00:00

Wondering if I am the only one that’s noticed more and more thread derailments. I’m not talking about TRA taking a TWAW stance but an individual being deliberately obtuse or missing the point of an individuals posts to create an argument about a tangential element. It just seems rather insidious and designed to prevent proper conversation. This is not a TAT but a thread about a phenomenon.

Noodledog · 12/12/2025 23:33

Gretel346 · 12/12/2025 22:45

Personal insults & hate speech aren't generally tolerated anywhere but that's not to say that some huge forums don't have rogue mods that operate outside the forum's standards because they are so difficult to control. It's often hit & miss on reddit because of its size. But I take your point. I have been 'clipped' on Israel reddit for a purely benign comment.

Show quote history

"Personal insults and hate speech" have nothing to do with the total suppression of any kind of GC ideas, or even comments, on Reddit. It's not a matter of rogue mods- honestly, try finding a subreddit that is GC. You won't be able to, they have all been shut down. If a feminist subreddit doesn't accept that "transwomen are women", it will disappear, very quickly.

Reddit really is a very MRA policed forum.

Noodledog · 12/12/2025 23:34

Oh, and good luck finding a lesbian subreddit that doesn't accept TIMs. Again, you won't be able to, they've all been shut down.

potpourree · 12/12/2025 23:54

ProfessorBettyBooper · 12/12/2025 23:30

Yeah those irritable wims picking petty, oh so silly , fights about women's rights. Silly wims!

Do you even hear yourself?

Have an actual read of the intelligent, thoughtful, articulate, massively politically influential posts here and honestly have a word with yourself.

Show quote history

I've been on MN for years and you can't honestly say she's wrong (i think she was talking about derailers on MN in general).... MN can be hilarious, enraging, eye-opening, frustrating, ridiculous... but worth it for those moments of connection or that poster that articulates something beautifully that you've never been able to put into words!

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 12/12/2025 23:59

Never seen tone policing on this board! Except by occasional drive by scolders.

It is , however, one of the politest places I've found on the Internet. Maybe an expectation of civility comes across as tone policing for those not used to it?

You will be expected to robustly defend your points though - perhaps that comes across as rude if posters are used to sites where debate isn't allowed, who knows.

I don't think I've come across an obvious desire for the OP to control their thread, but it's usually pretty obvious if people are posting things which are utterly off topic. Of course, there is a grey area in the middle where the two meet.

But I agree with OP, lots of interesting threads seem to be grinding to a halt. Usually where some posters want to argue some off topic point to death, usually one which has been done in detail on many previous threads which they could have taken the time to look at, if they could have bothered.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 00:17

SnoopyPajamas · 12/12/2025 19:47

I agree reading comprehension skills have declined in recent years. People will misunderstand a statement and then swear blind that their misinterpretation of your words is what you actually said. It gets tiring.

But I think some of the people who cry "derailment" are just frustrated they can't control the conversation. There's a thread here in FWR, running at the moment, about Margaret Atwood. The OP is extremely frustrated and has stopped reading the responses, because she says the thread has been "derailed". But it hasn't. It's a thread which positions Margaret Atwood as a feminist authority whose warnings women should heed. The "derailment" is women of FWR - well-known posters, all - pointing out that MA ignored the warnings of women like us for years. She ignored our appeals for support, and many of us no longer consider her a voice worth listening to.

That's not "derailment". If the premise of the thread is "look, here's a feminist icon saying something important we should listen to", and a significant portion of the response is women challenging that . . . that's fair. These aren't trolls who have come in from outside to stop the conversation. They're just women who disagree. That's well within the bounds of healthy debate.

TLDR: Yes, there's a problem. But there's also a tendency to classify disagreement as derailment, which is doing no-one any favours.

Agree.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 00:18

TeenToTwenties · 12/12/2025 20:59

As i see it, this board is specifically for how women are being impacted by trans rights organisations , (and as a sideline associated impact on children).

All other feminism belongs in feminism chat.
So, want to talk about setting up a rape crisis centre for women - you can use chat.
Want yo talk about the difficulty of setting up a rape crisis centre for women and not include and biological males- use this board.

The 'right wing' stuff i think has just been imported from the USA. In the UK it is hardly the fault of women that the left abandoned common sense, biology, and safeguarding. Many women on this board are clearly upset that their traditional political parties have been so captured on this issue.

Given that Gender identity is belief and sex is fair you are never going square the circle with true believers.

Also this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 00:23

moto748e · 12/12/2025 22:59

I have never witnessed a large discussion forum where commenters are so precious about tone & content policing than MN.

I think anyone who says that is either a liar, or painfully unaware of just about every other talkboard and forum on the internet. The list of sites where banhammers are dished out for the slightest mention of anything GC is too long to list.

Quite.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 13/12/2025 00:59

potpourree · 12/12/2025 23:54

I've been on MN for years and you can't honestly say she's wrong (i think she was talking about derailers on MN in general).... MN can be hilarious, enraging, eye-opening, frustrating, ridiculous... but worth it for those moments of connection or that poster that articulates something beautifully that you've never been able to put into words!

Show quote history

You think the derailers are 'sleep deprived mums'?

Really?

🤨

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:07

I think it can sometimes be difficult to tell if someone is just annoying and a bit dumb, vs, a troll or bot. Usually it will become clear over time. For me the tell is that you end up having the same discussion again and again, not because of a disagreement, but because they claim to not even know things you already spoke about.

The only problem with this rule of thumb is it actually includes a few regular posters who are afaik real and not trolls.

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:14

Bagsintheboot · 12/12/2025 16:49

I have to agree with you, I do unfortunately see quite a lot of this.

I don't engage as much as I used to on the "hotter" threads, because in my experience any hint that you are not totally aligned with the zeitgeist, or even if you are but you just take a more moderate stance, will tend to generate this kind of response, along with accusations of derailment / being a man etc.

In my personal opinion, I also think a lot of the accusations of "derailing" are less based in actual concern about the thread being derailed and more of a tactic to chase posters that you don't agree with off the thread; it saves the necessity of calling them a troll outright, which is against the rules.

I've seen plenty of deliberate derailment into recipe discussions by certain groups on here, who are rarely if ever accused of derailment - probably because they are on the 'right' side.

Its a great shame because I think FWR has become a little bit of an echo chamber, to its detriment. I've been following this debate on here since 2012 (under one name or another!) and I do think the general standard of posting has degraded somewhat over the years.

Show quote history

Yeah, I have seen this.

I remember one thread, or not really remember because I can't remember the topic, and I was finding it really interesting. And the fucking recipe derailers came in and killed it.

I was so pissed off.

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:27

Squishedpassenger · 12/12/2025 18:08

So, and this might be an actual thing, and I just don't know, but when one refers to Women's Rights, does that automatically mean a GC stance?

You see, up to now, if someone said to me that they are passionate or active in fighting for Women's Rights, I wouldn't assume that means they are GC. Just like I wouldn't know how someone feels about trans rights just because they describes themselves as a feminist.

Show quote history

I was here when they made the split, and I never interpreted it that way.

I think fwr was intended for discussion of gender issues specifically. It happens that it is GC dominated. That is part of the reason some people wanted it hived off, but it's not a requirement to post.

But there is no "default" protected stance here. If everyone changed their mind tomorrow, it would be dominated by a differernt perspective.

GarlicRound · 13/12/2025 01:35

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:14

Yeah, I have seen this.

I remember one thread, or not really remember because I can't remember the topic, and I was finding it really interesting. And the fucking recipe derailers came in and killed it.

I was so pissed off.

Show quote history

The recipe schtick was an attempt to get rid of persistently contrarian irritants by boring them off the thread. Surprisingly effective: maybe you need to raise your culinary game, Tost.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 01:35

Exactly, it just reflects the fact that MN, like the rest of society, has issues with gender identity ideology, and as it is the feminist board, that’s the lens through which people will be analysing issues relating to women’s conflicting rights. Most people are not either TRAs or feminists. Most women come to MN to speak with other women about common female experiences.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 01:39

Sometimes it’s clear as a pattern across multiple threads (and sometimes obvious posting styles that are recognisable even with a nc) that a poster is a deliberate community disrupter for whatever personal reasons and that’s often not clear to people new to the thread. I could name several right now, but obviously I’m not going to.

GarlicRound · 13/12/2025 01:53

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:27

I was here when they made the split, and I never interpreted it that way.

I think fwr was intended for discussion of gender issues specifically. It happens that it is GC dominated. That is part of the reason some people wanted it hived off, but it's not a requirement to post.

But there is no "default" protected stance here. If everyone changed their mind tomorrow, it would be dominated by a differernt perspective.

Show quote history

Same - and this is not a place for half-baked polemic (thank god).

If someone says they are passionate or active in fighting for Women's Rights and TWAW, they will be robustly questioned on their understanding of 'women' and 'rights'. They'll be similarly queried if arguing that hijab/burka is a choice, promiscuity and liberation go together, abortion's bad for women's rights, a religion supports female liberation, no career is a satisfying as being home with your children, and a number of things relating to 'choice' feminism or a non-canonical definition of intersectionality.

FWIW, I hold at least one of these views. I expect to be questioned and to defend myself with a better than one-dimensional argument.

TortillaKitty · 13/12/2025 02:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 01:39

Sometimes it’s clear as a pattern across multiple threads (and sometimes obvious posting styles that are recognisable even with a nc) that a poster is a deliberate community disrupter for whatever personal reasons and that’s often not clear to people new to the thread. I could name several right now, but obviously I’m not going to.

Wouldn’t you just report them then if you think they are breaking MN guidelines?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 02:51

A lot of the time it’s more insidious than that.

TortillaKitty · 13/12/2025 02:55

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 02:51

A lot of the time it’s more insidious than that.

If they’re not breaking any guidelines, what is it exactly they are doing then that is a problem? If there are patterns, surely that is helpful to MN.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 03:07

There are lots of ways of deliberately winding people up that aren’t obviously in breach of talk guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 03:08

And yes, sometimes MN does monitor the patterns and occasionally ban people for being repeatedly goady.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 04:27

Noodledog · 12/12/2025 22:22

I think you're ignoring the history of this board. MN set this up when not only were there complaints from other posters about GC posts being allowed in the feminism topic, they were also under serious attack from TRAs for allowing any discussion on trans issues at all. They came up with this board, maybe not ideal, but the fact that they were brave enough to allow discussion of trans issues, in the face of abuse and threats from TRAs, is something I for one am extremely grateful for.

Show quote history

I'm not ignoring anything. I am saying how the site define the board. Maybe you feel the site is ignoring this history.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 04:36

TempestTost · 13/12/2025 01:27

I was here when they made the split, and I never interpreted it that way.

I think fwr was intended for discussion of gender issues specifically. It happens that it is GC dominated. That is part of the reason some people wanted it hived off, but it's not a requirement to post.

But there is no "default" protected stance here. If everyone changed their mind tomorrow, it would be dominated by a differernt perspective.

Show quote history

The issue is that more than one poster, especially very vocal posters in the group, do think this section is primarily for people who are GC to have a safe space to share their views without challenge. From what I see, the site's moderators have supported that informally despite it never being what the split intended. Well not unless the owner and moderators were being disingenuous in the posts I copied here.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 04:40

GarlicRound · 13/12/2025 01:53

Same - and this is not a place for half-baked polemic (thank god).

If someone says they are passionate or active in fighting for Women's Rights and TWAW, they will be robustly questioned on their understanding of 'women' and 'rights'. They'll be similarly queried if arguing that hijab/burka is a choice, promiscuity and liberation go together, abortion's bad for women's rights, a religion supports female liberation, no career is a satisfying as being home with your children, and a number of things relating to 'choice' feminism or a non-canonical definition of intersectionality.

FWIW, I hold at least one of these views. I expect to be questioned and to defend myself with a better than one-dimensional argument.

Show quote history

I think that you have to understand that your "robust questioning" is just an imperfect individual interrogating another poster to see if they have the same biases. It isn't a way to actually see if someone is a proper feminist or whatever.

I think part of the problem is people seeing their views as the perfect views because some people here share them.

What feminist groups should be about is women from all different background sharing their experiences and learning more about each other. Not trying to compete to see whose views are the Rightest.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 04:41

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 03:07

There are lots of ways of deliberately winding people up that aren’t obviously in breach of talk guidelines.

Yes but maybe one getting wound up because another woman has different views to them isn't appropriate and certainly isn't ban worthy. Maybe if you're getting wound up on the Internet, you need to log off.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 04:44

You’re not even close to what I’m talking about.