Thread derailment

[Temporaryusernamefortoday]

Wondering if I am the only one that’s noticed more and more thread derailments. I’m not talking about TRA taking a TWAW stance but an individual being deliberately obtuse or missing the point of an individuals posts to create an argument about a tangential element. It just seems rather insidious and designed to prevent proper conversation.

This is not a TAT but a thread about a phenomenon.

I dont engage much with people after I share my views because I don't always see the point. I think what I think based on my knowledge bank. There's often no point in talking with someone who is irritated by my opinions and wants to change them. I'm not obliged to.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I have not at any point said that the board was sold to me as anything. I’ve been here since 2014.

Yes, that’s up to you. But don’t be surprised if people who can evidence why you’re wrong on a given issue think you’re running away from that.

Other people definitely seem to feel that way. I can't see how it could have been 4 years and people still aren't sure.

The quality of discussion on Reddit is nothing like it is here.

One would have to think other people's views matter for that to be a problem.

I think a lot of people are fond of Reddit hence its popularity.

Then don’t include me in that group, thanks. We’re not a hive mind and you are coming across as someone who is pretty hostile to the women here.

Yes there are many reasons people are “fond of Reddit”. Not all of them are good. Mumsnet has its own culture and flaws, of course.

I'm not feeling hostile towards anyone. I'm commenting on the thread and saying what other posters have said.

There's quite some incongruity to criticism of we others for what you call seeing our feminism as perfect, while presuming to declare what feminist groups should be about!

In case it had escaped your notice, feminism is a political movement. It has defined principles and underlying objectives. Our movement is global; the more detailed objectives vary according to cultural and regional conditions. Feminists agree on the principles and fundamental aims.

Some groups of people call themselves feminist without believing the politics. This doesn't mean feminism has changed or developed 'nuances', it means they're wrong or lying.

Feminism often does entail women from all different backgrounds sharing their experiences and learning more about each other, but gentle socialising and/or group therapy is not among the objectives. Find another group for that - dozens of the other MN boards might better suit your needs.

Lots of people on here likely use Reddit. I've seen it mentioned lots of times in threads.

As I said, it’s just reality. If you come steaming into a discussion you are poorly informed about and say “you are wrong because (poor reasoning) and I’m not going to stick around and listen to any explanation why I might be wrong”, people are going to draw conclusions. If you don’t care what people think of you, it doesn’t matter, as you say, does it?

So?

Feminism doesn't have defined principles. It has one defined principle - equality for women. Different groups of feminists have varied approaches on how that equality should be achieved and what issues are of most priority. There isn't one feminism and then other types of feminism are fake. There isn't one feminist political movement.

And that's part of the problem with the board. It is for feminists. Not GC feminists. That's why every thread is in danger of being a debate.

I love debating. I’m happy to discuss with genderists why I don’t agree with them.

I would say feminism is about the liberation and equality of the female sex, women and girls. There can be many nuances but any feminism that focuses on men is fake feminism, in my opinion.

Your first paragraph is shit. It's incorrect, vaguely worded and (imo) dumb. As previously mentioned, I'm not going to give you a Feminism 101.

Your second paragraph's ludicrous. You don't even know what feminism is, having seemingly defined it as some sort of afternoon chat at the spa. It is, however, politics. Debate is the life-blood of politics. It is not a 'danger'.

It isn't shit. It's the literal definition of feminism. You say debate is the life blood of politics, but obviously this thread exists because of complaints of derailing. Some posters have observed that these complaints are often used to stifle opposing viewpoints.

Yes and that makes you a certain type of feminist. I am very passionate about a certain type of feminism related to my demographic. There are several subgroups of feminists. I don't agree with the views or priorities of some of them - in fact I vehemently disagree - but it doesn't change that they think that is the way to achieve liberation and equality for women.

I mostly disagree with those I disagree with as I think they are blind to some or several issues.

Good for you. It makes me a feminist who centres women and girls as the entire point of feminism.

It is for feminists. Not GC feminists.

Having been making this point many times a month for bloody years, I promised myself not to bother any more. But just for you ... Feminism is by definition gender critical. There are two reasons for this:

1. It's about female people, their rights and freedoms. It must by nature be opposed to any belief that males may be women or girls.
2. Gender - the set of cultural expectations and impositions that societies place on their members according to sex - is an instrument of patriarchy, universally used to oppress women and girls. Feminism is therefore deeply critical of gender.

Every feminist feels that their feminism at least attempts to do that. My intention here isnt to rehash our personal feminist views. I'm building on the point that as the group is intended for feminists, and not a subgroup of feminists, it was never intended to prioritise the voices of GC feminists. At most, it was to allow all views in a online world where GC views were/are becoming more frequently forbidden.

If someone said they were a passionate feminist and that men were more powerful than women so all women should be looked after by their male family members at all times for their own comfort and safety, would you believe them? Would you just think it was a “different type of feminism”?

It’s a complete non point. No one thinks genderist views should be banned from FWR. They just aren’t popular here. Or with the country in general, if you look at what people really think.