Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #58

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025

@FeralWomanwatching Ben Cooper in action is like watching a beautifully scripted play - there is a beginning, middle and end, with the end being an awesome ‘gotcha’ that demands extensive applause. He is a master at work.

I think DU and his ilk mentally rape women when they gatecrash our spaces. Something most male judges will have no understanding of.

Oh Lord. Not only that. Textbooks. "First Aid in English".

Anyone else get that one at school? In amongst lists of animals and birds which included "Tiger Tigress Cub" we had "Ngro Ngress Pican*nny".

This is why Trump's "Drain The Swamp" and "Harris is for they/them. President Trump is for you." slogans were so effective: they went straight to the heart of people's anger that the blob / the lanyard class / whatever we are calling them this week are unelected and unaccountable and push all this utter nonsense onto the public for no clear gain other than their own salaries.

Contact your local library. This is what mine says about this:

"There is a charge of £8.50 to request an inter-library loan, which must be paid even if the item cannot be supplied. If an item is supplied by the British Library or an academic library, this will have a charge of £20.60. Please see our webpage on fees and charges for more information. This process can take 6 weeks or longer."

However, the page does also say:

"The British Library are experiencing a major technology outage as a result of a cyber-attack. The outage is affecting their website, online systems and services, which means we are not able to request inter-library loans from them at the moment."

Whether that last bit is up to date or not I don't know.

I'm going to have to start a new thread before I head off to do other stuff. What do we reckon, will this thread be filled this evening or tomorrow?

That has been ongoing for a number.of years, I think!

"Case by case" means entity by entity though, doesn't it? Not person by person.

I think it's extremely unlikely that he would be prepared to damage his professional reputation like this deliberately. I think most likely he's simply a misogynist and a snob who lacks the basic cunning to hide his biases.

And is too ignorant to not even realise that chatgpt can't be relied on. The Dunning Kruger effect on full display.

For FUCKS SAKE.

Sorry, that's probably my clumsy wording, I was not putting TiMs in the "Hey, kids" category, I just meant that that my brain automatically notices both types of men in the same way - it alerts me that there's something that needs attention, or avoidance.

This case makes me so glad that TwiX has made likes inaccessible to anyone else.

That is a very astute point.

If you do it now it'll be one less thing on your to-do list. We must all inwardly promise not to post on it until this one is full.

OTOH if you wait and this one fills up we'll all need to sit on our hands and forget what we were going to say until you're good and ready to cater to our thready whims.

❤

It is possible Kemp is just not competent.

I have the feeling he has tried to use interim guidelines. But I also feel that he has tried to reason backwards from a preconceived outcome.

As Maya Forstater pointed out, all the 'mistakes' lead to one direction - that of Sandy being wrong and Upton being right. Contrary to the FWS judgement.

You're telling me I have the power to give a time-out, of hours or maybe even a day, to everyone who posts on this thread?

Such power!

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5392926/nhs-fife-trans-judgment-bogus-quote/

No further edits to NHS Fife trans row judgment despite new bogus quote claims

Court officials say the Sandie Peggie tribunal ruling will not be amended again as it's claimed artificial intelligence (AI) may have been used.

Hmm. They should ask some older Irish women about pubic symphysis surgery.

And it's all very well shifting the pubic angle, but what about everything that flows from that? The hip and knee joints will have developed at a different angle. They won't take kindly to being realigned.

It was 14 days from the judgment and Sandie and her family are heroes

Safe to say there is a much newer version that whilst I haven't checked has hopefully had those references removed!

The original was published in 1938! But most of us would have been using the 1956 version!

It's 14 for reconsideration, 42 for appeal.

Yup, Occam’s razor. He’s not very clever, doesn’t check his work properly, and is so blinded by ideological prejudice that he ignored the objective reality of the law in favour of his own inbuilt bias. And is perhaps so cocky that he didn’t realise a judgment in a high-profile case would be very carefully scrutinised. He does not come up smelling of roses.

Well. I'm sure that will go well. and definitely won't leave him dealing with decades of pain and disability. These people really do regard the human body as something can be chopped and changed around with no negative effects.

Of course, the surgeons should refuse to do it. Obviously for US surgeons there will be a lot of money involved, but I do sometimes wonder if they actually hate their patients. I can't imagine any normal person being prepared to inflict this kind of pain, with minimal possible gain.

Thank you so much. I’ve contacted a few other sources too - but will do this as well.

Hi, journos!