Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #58

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025

Black people and Asians are as good as me, but I have sung Old Folks at Home with the original words.

Am I better or worse than S Peggie?

Sorry I have to disagree with this. There were plenty of jokes about the Lockerbie crash around at the time in Scotland.

@MyrtleLion wishing you well for your job hunt, sounds v exciting. And of course with your recovery. Huge thanks for all your c&p efforts for us.

I think it would be very interesting to compare Sandy Kemp’s previous judgements to the SP one. Are they of a similar excessive length? Do they use the word proselytising with a z as frequently? Is the writing style the same?

We have. There is not i think a lack of understanding between us as women.

My mum told me that n-brown is a specific shade of brown, in the same way that navy blue is a specific shade of blue. In her opinion/recollection it was not seen as problematic at all until WW2, when many UK residents were exposed to the racism of the US Army through their demands that segregation be observed in England. (She grew up not far from Bamber Bridge) Her memory was that it started to fade out of acceptable use after then, but took a long while.

Day is easy: 16th April.

Flag: tierced in fess purpure argent vert a balance sable.

No, I'm not going to try to draw that. Paste it into drawshield.net/create/index.html to see an approximate rendition. Preferences will let you put it onto a flag instead of a shield.

A canting alternative design: barry purpure argent vert argent a balance sable

The pun that makes that second blazon "canting" is in bold. The problem with barry (and fessy, and bendy, and all the other patterny fields) is that the number of pattern elements is completely up to the artist, so you could end up with anything from teeny tiny pinstripe to one stripe of each colour.

Simple question, when someone with a GRC dies what sex is recognised/recorded for statical purposes? Assuming their biological sex is recorded at birth, an individual can obtain a GRC until their death. Surely their birth sex is recorded at death and the GRC ‘spent’ otherwise it’s possible to skew statistics recording that more women/men could die than were born. It’s been puzzling me as to the legal mechanism.

It seems pretty wild.

Scotgov are in the position where they were the actual respondents in FWS, after they lost at the Supreme Court they said (with considerable ill grace) that they accepted the ruling, they've done bugger all to implement the ruling, and now they're coming up with the novel legal theory that an Employment Tribunal can nullify a judgment of the Supreme Court.

If Swinney won't listen to us, maybe we should get Protect-the-dollz from Reddit to explain how the law works.

I wonder if that's why really dark brown tights are called "barely black"? The fashion industry would need a new name for n-word brown and I've never understood why those tights are called "barely black".

The Courier got the facts wrong in the case of Lee & Asher: the bakers did not refuse to make the cake but they did refuse to decorate it in the way Lee wanted, as the wording in decoration would have expressed views contrary to the bakers' Christian beliefs.

Open questions I'll ask about:… Will a runner be able to run again at full performance?

One wonders about this question.

@MyrtleLion
Thank you for posting both of these. I needed something to make me laugh in the middle of all this.

Ditto Mascara.

I think Sylko n* brown thread is now known as Kangaroo Brown. (I have a reel of the latter inherited from my mum and it is quite a dark brown, although I think kangaroos are a bit more tan).

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
The first men who declared themselves to be women "born in the wrong body" were upper-class men. Personally, I think this is because they are the demographic who had the time and money to develop an addiction to porn before the internet came along. Now that porn is pervasive with smartphones, the number of men affected has increased and they are getting younger as boys can view porn on their smart devices before they even hit puberty.

Love it but I want it quartered with the colours, the balance taking the last quarter & the whole supported by hamsters rampant. 😄

Barely black tights are transparent - you can still see the colour of the skin beneath, especially if you have milk bottles for legs as I do.
Black tights are not usually transparent so you can't see skin through the thicker nylon.

Am I the only one who thinks Protect-the-dollz is a GC (from here or elsewhere, I have no idea) trolling r/transgenderuk? 😁

The obnoxious racist term, I’ll identify it as to do with knitting wool colour, referred to in previous posts had another quite different original meaning. I used to own in the 1970’s (now destroyed) an Enid Blyton Childrens story book with this word in the title as a name relating to a mythical creature who I also wouldn’t want to name. If you know the book you would understand. The title totally acceptable when originally published would be an abomination if published today. I think the poster may be right about WW2 GI’s introducing the racist terminology.

The whole point of black humour is that it's funny because it cuts so close to the bone. I remember Joan Rivers making her 9/11 joke about not all widows of firemen killed in the twin towers grieving after receiving a payout only a few months after the terrorist attack.
It was shockingly funny specifically because the event was so horrific and so recent.

Thankfully, JK Rowling is funding Sandie's defence as otherwise she would probably have been unfairly dismissed and sent on her way.

@ILoveLaLaLand We don't know who Sandy's backer is, but it isn't JK Rowling.That was made clear a long time ago.

(Edited for spelling)

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c1287013-6d89-4670-a818-77fbecadbd8a?shareToken=fac06ac1fefbdaafdbfb0959a32e8980

How was it made clear?

I thought we just didn't know, but that it was still widely suspected? And that it was that suspicion that drove JR to her shocking fishing for a name from Mr Borwick?

selffellatingouroborosofhate - you're not afraid of taking obscure things to the extreme, and I like that in a person

And you've even found a website that creates shield from a blazon! which is brilliant! if you know what a blazon is!

Every day a school day here, and I've learnt lots thanks to your post, Self

I have. Perhaps you could read mine?